Untrue

Post #17,824 by Yendor 11/12/01 1:57:31 AM Reply	Untrue They can't fire you for being average. Only below average. Most definitely not true. IIRC, Missouri is a state covered by much the same employment laws (as respects hiring and firing anyway) as Illinois. I believe they're called "at-will" states. You remain at your job at both your will and your employer's will. You can be fired without notice, and you can quit to go work for another company without notice (two weeks is NOT required; merely customary and usual.) And, believe me, you can get fired in Illinois even if you're a great employee. Employers don't need any reason to fire you. -YendorMike "The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by the skeptics or the cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need people who dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
Post #17,837 by orion 11/12/01 6:20:57 AM Reply	That is their policy that the firm management can terminate employment for any reason. it says so in their policies. They did talk about hiring on two more programmers if they can budget it in. They want a higher level of developer. But if they cannot get the budget, who is to say they can't lay off two existing developers and then hire two higher skilled developers to take their place? *Picking up the pieces of my broken life.*
Post #17,918 by tuberculosis 11/12/01 2:40:34 PM Reply	If thats true you're toast regardless of whether you work 40 or 60 hours per week. So work 40 and hope not to be toast.
Post #18,182 by orion 11/13/01 11:20:30 PM Reply	Toast no matter what? Or if I work 50 to 60 hours a week, would they change their mind and keep me? If I am toast no matter what, why the probation when they could have easily fired me? I think it is one set of managers that wants me gone, and another that wants me to stay. In July it will be my 5th year anniversary and I get that extra week of vacation and higher profit sharing. The other programmer analysts have less years than me, so I have seniority. Too bad I cannot please all the managers, but that's life. Maybe things will change with the new policies? *Picking up the pieces of my broken life.*
Post #18,257 by inthane-chan 11/14/01 12:13:55 PM Reply	Fat chance. The probation is known in legal circles as "covering your ass." My wife found out about this the hard way - an unsubstantiated (read: she didn't do it, but we know who made up the rumor) rumor made it's way to her boss. Bammo, she goes on "probation" for two weeks, with strict rules supposedly to shape her behavior. She pulls it off without a hitch. They bring up a whole host of "new" things that were not mentioned before as further excuse to fire her ass, so they don't get slapped with unemployment claims. This happened about two years ago, and I wish I could have talked her into suing the bastards. They didn't really prove themselves in their claims, but she was too much of a wimp. "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #18,325 by kmself 11/14/01 6:35:51 PM Reply	Yep What he said. Even "at will" states have various issues. Denial of unemployment insurance is one -- you may not be able to collect if you resign, or if you're fired "with cause". There's also the issue of opening up a lawsuit against your employer. It's going to be more expensive for them to fight than to settle, in most cases. The "probationary period" may strengthen their case. Again: I'd talk to an employment issues lawyer. Sounds like you're going to need it. A mental anguish case might be well founded, given what you've presented here. `-- Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com] What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?`

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