Calm down

Post #177,712 by deSitter 10/4/04 3:29:48 PM 10/4/04 3:31:17 PM Reply	Calm down Can't you have a nice heated discussion without blowing your stack? What you suggested was to lose all hotplug facility completely. Why would I want that? You seem to think only YOU are capable of getting to the bottom of things. I had a USB keyboard that would never properly initialize. Instead of kludging up my system I got to the bottom of things - the USB system needed a few more seconds to respond. So a "sleep 5" at the right place fixed it the REAL way - so that it actually worked within the constraints of the existing system, without breaking it. So I can still do all auto updates from SuSE without having a zillion useless modules on my machine, everything works, and ONLY my hardware world is represented. (Plus I have nice big 12x22 Sun console font on boot :) -drl Edited by deSitter Oct. 4, 2004, 03:31:17 PM EDT Calm down Can't you have a nice heated discussion without blowing your stack? What you suggested was to lose all hotplug facility completely. Why would I want that? You seem to think only YOU are capable of getting to the bottom of things. I had a USB keyboard that would never properly initialize. Instead of kludging up my system I got to the bottom of things - the USB system needed a few more seconds to respond. So a "sleep 5" at the right place fixed it the REAL way - so that it actually worked within the constraints of the existing system, without breaking it. So I can still do all auto updates from SuSE without having a zillion useless modules on my machine, everything works, and ONLY my hardware world is represented. -drl Collapse All History
Post #177,731 by drewk 10/4/04 4:32:29 PM Reply	He didn't What you suggested was to lose all hotplug facility completely. Nope. Let's look at what he sad: echo "usblp" >> /etc/hotplu/blacklist.d/unwanted Guess what "usblp" is? It's the module that talks to usb printers. You know, "lp" as in "lpt1". They used to call it that, right? And you are running a 2.6 kernel aren't you? Under 2.4 kernels usb printing was handled by usbcore, which would have meant disabling all of usb. And the issue is that if the host OS (Linux) is controlling the usb printer, the client OS under VMWare (Windows) can't talk to it. And since I only have Windows on this box because there is no Linux driver for it I figure I'm safe in saying I don't need the Linux system talking to the printer. Now, by instructing Linux to not load this one module, the printer stays available for the Windows instance to use. I don't modify my kernel, so the method my distro uses to push security updates still works. And the module is still there so if someone finishes a decent Linux driver a couple of months from now, I just delete the line from the blacklist and it starts working. Bah, I'm done biting on this troll. === Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
Post #177,733 by folkert 10/4/04 4:41:35 PM Reply	No. blacklisting is ONLY for dealing with Specific modules you DON'T want loaded. And no, I wasn't blowing my stack. I was using your own tactics against you. There is a difference. I would NEVER disable all hotplugging. Why would I do that when I could just Uninstall it. You see, Debian isn't all about taking the easy road, but building your own road the best way possible, freely. I know how SuSE works, remember I have a discount on SuSE stuff (which now has turned into a discount on all Novell stuff). I like SuSE, I (used to) like RedHat, I like Debian, I like Slackware (which I have a lifetime subscription for priority release and reduced pricing). I use the best tools that are available, hotplug in debian has been extended to recognize "conf.d" style directories. Better yet, All of Debian is taking that approach. To minize the conflagarations of botching conf files. This way, If I were to install a module for Apache and it needs configurations, /etc/apache/conf.d/ is where it's "file" would go for configs. This is the way Hotplug deals with dev.d (as well as udev) and blacklist.d. SuSE doesn't have the modularity thing down. They don't need it yet. They don't support 13 platforms. (well not quite yet) Debian needs the flexibility to do specific configs for different architectures and there they have expanded this stuff to enable ease of maintenance. Best thing for you to do, pull down a current version of the sarge_di network install. From [link\|http://gluck.debian.org/cdimage/testing/sarge_d-i/i386/current/sarge-i386-netinst.iso\|here] and go install it. Use it, ask question that can be painfully simple to use. GrokDebian for what it strives to do, GrokDebian for what it tries to do, GrokDebian for what it can do, GrokDebian for the tremndous works from Volunteers. Volunteers, yes that is right Debian is not "funded" by commercial greed or support hungry companies. Volunteers give time to help answer questions. Volunteers maintain something like 100 bahmillion lines of code for the 16000+ packages in the Debian Archive. Debian gives back to upstream heavily, infact there is not other Distribution that has a better bug tracking, reporting, fixing and porting record. Debian does this automatically if you want. Manually by default. I could wax on indefinitely. But you hopefully get the point. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source] Here is an example: [link\|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/\|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
Post #177,736 by ben_tilly 10/4/04 4:54:53 PM Reply	You call an extra sleep(5) not a kludge? I'm sorry Ross, but you have no taste. Adding an extra sleep because something is slow is a hack. Sure, I'd do something like that when I need to. I have. I preface it with comments about it being a hack because I know that it is wrong and I know everything that can break when I do that. Perhaps there is a problem that causes it to slow down? It breaks. Perhaps some day I get a better one that initializes faster? I'm wasting time. Perhaps someone copies that code to use elsewhere? That (now superfluous) sleep has become a bad meme. Coming up with a "right" solution is sometimes more work than it is worth. Such is life. But I wouldn't hire someone who doesn't have the aesthetic sense to knowl when they're just applying duct tape. Cheers, Ben About the use of language: it is impossible to sharpen a pencil with a blunt axe. It is equally vain to try to do it with ten blunt axes instead. -- Edsger W. Dijkstra

Welcome to IWETHEY!