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New Rumsfeld Doctrine
From the article: The Rumsfeld Doctrine is: "Just enough troops to lose.".

Funny, but I think it fails to catch the reason that this Doctrine was given credance. The problem is that Rummy thought we could use Afghan tactics to win the peace in Iraq. This administration was suckered by their own success in Afghanistan and failed to correctly apply the lessons.

More than anything, Afghanistan was a Special Ops exercise with proxy forces. We found natural allies in place with the various Northern Alliance and warlord factions. We could use air power to strike with precision and loosen up resistance, and have the Northern Alliance perform the ground operations and set up governance. Bottom line is that we never needed a lot of ground troops in Afghanistan, and we didn't have a large presence locally to give the impression of an occupation force.

Well, Iraq was a completely different war. The Turks made sure they we could not easily link up with the more natural allies of the Kurds in the North. And the Shiites were just bystanders in the process. We've been fighting against both Shiite and Sunni, so neither is particularly on our side. If the administration wasn't so scared of the Shia dominance, they probably would have ignored Sadr and gone straight for the throat of the Sunni's. But that would tip the balance in favor of Iran - something the administration is trying to avoid.

So, we get a force in Iraq that goes in periodically to clean up. Not enuf for a true occupation. Then it expects that by staying out of local governance affairs, that we can let the process naturally gel. Problem is that our presence in Iraq is not in any way similar to Afghanistan.
New Not really working in Afghanistan either
Afghanistan's government is basically in charge of one city. Much of the country is falling under the sway of narcotic rings, as the opium trade ramps up; currently heroin is their number one export, earning more hard currency than all other exports combined. In the meantime, the infrastructure outside the capital city is still in ruins, and falling into worse condition as it continues to take a pounding from various internecine skirmishes.

If the US had taken care of Afghanistan (and OBL) properly, and now wanted to clean up Iraq, there'd be a lot less hassle, a lot more goodwill from other parties in Iraq (as the US would have shown that it wasn't only acting in its bottom line interest), and from the various neighbours for exactly the same reason.

They should've used overwhelming force in Afghanistan from the get go, pacified the place with several hundred thousand US troops, rebuilt the infrastructure post haste, and then handed the country off to Karzai et al and said "here's the base conditions for lifting yourselves out of misery; whether you do so or not is up to you." Further, they should've undertaken a massive communications campaign in Afghanistan making that point to everyone in the countryside, so it would be very clear to the Street in Afghanistan exactly who should be blamed if it had gone all pear shaped after that.

The whole ME project that these folks have undertaken has been a big botch job from start to finish.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New Relatively speaking....
...Iraq has been a resounding success. But then our goals were mostly to capture or kill Taliban and Al Qaeda - democracy is purely an after thought. Besides, these criminals are just capitalists - supplying product to meet demand.

Personally, I think we did the right thing by not using overwhelming force in Afghanistan. But I do think many of those dollars that are going to Iraq, could have been used much better for Afghanistan - but we weren't willing to shell out the dollars.
New That's not how I remember it
The decision was to get rid of the Taliban as a harbourer of the group that destroyed the WTC, and to replace it with a democratic model state for the region.

It just didn't actually come about that way.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New Re: That's not how I remember it
The objective was to destroy the terror camps that had existed in Afghanistan since the post-Russian days, and to find and kill/capture OBL. Democracy and nation-building be damned. This should have been a seek and destroy mission.
-drl
New That's not how it was sold to the other nations that
participated.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New Re: Rumsfeld Doctrine
Don't look now, but we haven't "won Afghanistan". Chaos rules there as well:

[link|http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20041003_556.html|http://abcnews.go.co...20041003_556.html]
-drl
     Pollyanna returns, chastened - (deSitter) - (8)
         Rumsfeld Doctrine - (ChrisR) - (6)
             Not really working in Afghanistan either - (jake123) - (4)
                 Relatively speaking.... - (ChrisR) - (3)
                     That's not how I remember it - (jake123) - (2)
                         Re: That's not how I remember it - (deSitter) - (1)
                             That's not how it was sold to the other nations that - (jake123)
             Re: Rumsfeld Doctrine - (deSitter)
         It's official now. marlowe bring back the quagmire graphic! -NT - (a6l6e6x)

Idiocy is relative.
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