Call it a terminology mismatch, then

IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO

1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User

Welcome to IWETHEY!

Post #173,827 by FuManChu 9/12/04 10:37:12 PM Reply	Call it a terminology mismatch, then Them: They thought the level of abstraction that visual IDEs brag about was more a detriment than a benefit. You: This is pure hogwash. A good IDE helps you write code. Sounds to me like you have a different definition of "IDE" than they do. I have a feeling by "IDE" they mean a WYSIWYG GUI builder; what they feel is "detrimental abstraction" is the auto-generation of ugly, opaque code. "Despite the seemingly endless necessity for doing so, it's actually not possible to reverse-engineer intended invariants from staring at thousands of lines of code (not in C, and not in Python code either)." Tim Peters on python-dev
Post #173,828 by broomberg 9/12/04 10:51:12 PM Reply	But that is what I use it for! A WYSIWYG screen builder. The rest is mostly an annoyance.
Post #173,834 by drewk 9/13/04 12:08:18 AM Reply	How about this GUI IDEs are greta for building GUI interfaces. I think we can mostly agree on that. Now, how about for building the second and third tier business logic? Note: There's a macro for vim that offers function parameter pop-ups, just like IDE auto-completion. That one I don't use. There's a macro for function folding. That one I use. The syntax hilighting is more fine-grained than in any IDE I've used, and we've got Zend studio, by the people who make PHP. The one thing I've seen in the IDE that I haven't found (yet) for vim is that it will follow the include path to find functions/variables defined outside the current file. === Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
Post #173,836 by FuManChu 9/13/04 12:33:42 AM Reply	Mostly. I have yet to find a reasonable webapp GUI builder. The Sig: "Despite the seemingly endless necessity for doing so, it's actually not possible to reverse-engineer intended invariants from staring at thousands of lines of code (not in C, and not in Python code either)." Tim Peters on python-dev
Post #173,845 by bluke 9/13/04 2:43:31 AM Reply	Maybe I am writing server side Java framework code, I still find that the IDE helps me a lot especially the refactoring support.

Do you use an IDE? - (bluke) - (63) - Sept. 12, 2004, 09:02:40 AM EDT

I use emacs - (admin) - (17) - Sept. 12, 2004, 09:43:15 AM EDT

That was just 1 example - (bluke) - (9) - Sept. 12, 2004, 10:10:02 AM EDT

Re: That was just 1 example - (admin) - (8) - Sept. 12, 2004, 11:56:29 AM EDT

What I meant was ... - (bluke) - (4) - Sept. 12, 2004, 12:07:39 PM EDT

Re: What I meant was ... - (admin) - (3) - Sept. 12, 2004, 12:10:39 PM EDT

I never really used Emacs ... - (bluke) - (2) - Sept. 12, 2004, 12:17:03 PM EDT

No argument there. - (admin) - Sept. 12, 2004, 12:19:08 PM EDT

But if they're using VIM and calling it VI - (Simon_Jester) - Sept. 12, 2004, 02:28:09 PM EDT

I find the prefix to be distracting - (bluke) - (2) - Sept. 12, 2004, 12:11:09 PM EDT

That would work as well. -NT - (admin) - Sept. 12, 2004, 12:14:43 PM EDT

Use leading underscores for ivars - less distracting - (tuberculosis) - Aug. 21, 2007, 06:29:38 AM EDT

Little features won me over - (bluke) - (6) - Sept. 12, 2004, 10:22:58 AM EDT

Re: Little features won me over - (admin) - (5) - Sept. 12, 2004, 12:06:34 PM EDT

I am only doing Java now - (bluke) - (3) - Sept. 12, 2004, 12:14:28 PM EDT

Re: I am only doing Java now - (admin) - (2) - Sept. 12, 2004, 12:17:32 PM EDT

I do browse jars ... - (bluke) - (1) - Sept. 12, 2004, 12:28:50 PM EDT

How about embedded ones? - (admin) - Sept. 12, 2004, 12:29:37 PM EDT

ICLRPD (new thread) - (Another Scott) - Sept. 12, 2004, 12:50:20 PM EDT

I'm bouncing back and forth on this. - (broomberg) - (36) - Sept. 12, 2004, 11:16:06 AM EDT

There is no question ... - (bluke) - (30) - Sept. 12, 2004, 11:41:07 AM EDT

OK - (broomberg) - (29) - Sept. 12, 2004, 11:50:05 AM EDT

Not that I am selling Intellij ... - (bluke) - (28) - Sept. 12, 2004, 12:02:54 PM EDT

Doubt it - (broomberg) - (27) - Sept. 12, 2004, 12:39:55 PM EDT

Most of my typing is inserting text. - (admin) - (2) - Sept. 12, 2004, 04:47:28 PM EDT

ed is the standard text editor. -NT - (pwhysall) - (1) - Sept. 12, 2004, 04:57:21 PM EDT

? -NT - (admin) - Sept. 12, 2004, 05:14:41 PM EDT

Modes are evil. - (FuManChu) - (23) - Sept. 12, 2004, 05:23:42 PM EDT

? -NT - (pwhysall) - (14) - Sept. 12, 2004, 05:24:28 PM EDT

? RTFA - (FuManChu) - (13) - Sept. 12, 2004, 05:25:41 PM EDT

? -NT - (pwhysall) - (8) - Sept. 12, 2004, 05:29:00 PM EDT

Love ya man -NT - (FuManChu) - Sept. 12, 2004, 05:36:17 PM EDT

Type faster, Barry! :D -NT - (FuManChu) - (1) - Sept. 12, 2004, 05:38:50 PM EDT

Huh? -NT - (broomberg) - Sept. 12, 2004, 05:45:30 PM EDT

I did RTFA - (broomberg) - (4) - Sept. 12, 2004, 05:44:09 PM EDT

? - (pwhysall) - (3) - Sept. 12, 2004, 05:51:15 PM EDT

? - (FuManChu) - (1) - Sept. 12, 2004, 05:55:38 PM EDT

Footpedal - (altmann) - Sept. 13, 2004, 03:07:28 AM EDT

Yup - (broomberg) - Sept. 12, 2004, 06:04:15 PM EDT

? -NT - (admin) - (3) - Sept. 12, 2004, 05:29:04 PM EDT

??? -NT - (Yendor) - (2) - Sept. 12, 2004, 07:58:46 PM EDT

???? -NT - (broomberg) - (1) - Sept. 12, 2004, 08:23:46 PM EDT

!!! -NT - (Yendor) - Sept. 12, 2004, 08:36:16 PM EDT

Modals wobble but they don't fall down. - (Another Scott) - (7) - Sept. 12, 2004, 08:52:24 PM EDT

ROfsckingFL! - (jb4) - (6) - Sept. 13, 2004, 05:52:22 PM EDT

Yep, teco was great. - (admin) - Sept. 13, 2004, 09:33:03 PM EDT

In that case - (broomberg) - (4) - Sept. 13, 2004, 09:49:46 PM EDT

Wuss - (pwhysall) - Sept. 14, 2004, 12:34:17 AM EDT

Oh dear -- you woke Peter up. :-D -NT - (static) - (1) - Sept. 14, 2004, 01:00:40 AM EDT

Stalker! -NT - (pwhysall) - Sept. 14, 2004, 01:02:20 AM EDT

Used both... - (jb4) - Sept. 14, 2004, 04:25:49 PM EDT

VI keys. - (static) - (3) - Sept. 12, 2004, 08:38:39 PM EDT

I have heard this many times but never understood it - (bluke) - (2) - Sept. 13, 2004, 02:53:08 AM EDT

Refocus down just a little bit. - (static) - Sept. 13, 2004, 03:42:10 AM EDT

For me? - (Simon_Jester) - Sept. 14, 2004, 12:14:46 PM EDT

IDEA for Java - (tuberculosis) - Aug. 21, 2007, 06:29:40 AM EDT

The refactor tools are good - (ChrisR) - Sept. 12, 2004, 01:37:13 PM EDT

Call it a terminology mismatch, then - (FuManChu) - (4) - Sept. 12, 2004, 10:37:12 PM EDT

But that is what I use it for! - (broomberg) - (2) - Sept. 12, 2004, 10:51:12 PM EDT

How about this - (drewk) - (1) - Sept. 13, 2004, 12:08:18 AM EDT

Mostly. - (FuManChu) - Sept. 13, 2004, 12:33:42 AM EDT

Maybe - (bluke) - Sept. 13, 2004, 02:43:31 AM EDT

I don't either - (ben_tilly) - Sept. 13, 2004, 12:22:57 PM EDT

I think I put my finger on it - (drewk) - Sept. 13, 2004, 10:48:19 PM EDT

You will be boiled in vegetable oil and packaged for housecats.
89 ms