Not that I am selling Intellij ...

9/12/04 12:39:55 PM

Doubt it

vi is a modal editor. Emacs / most of the rest of the world is not.

So keymappings can often be used in non-modals to emulate the others, but not a modal.

When people code, the majory of the typing is NOT actually entering text. It is movement, checking a words here and there, reformatting, cutting and pasting, reversing the order of 2 lines next to each other, joining 2 lines together,
bouncing parenthesis, etc.

I can do all those thing in usually 2 keystrokes, no control or alt required.

I HATE editors that assume when I type something it is supposed to place somthing on the screen. If I wanted to insert something, I'd be in insert mode!

Post #173,793

by admin

9/12/04 4:47:28 PM

Most of my typing is inserting text.

And I hate editors that assume when I'm typing in text that they're supposed to hopelessly mangle my file by interpreting 'System.out.println' as commands.

vi is a modal editor not because that's the best way to code, but because that's the best way to conserve a 300baud communication line on a slow terminal.

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Post #173,795

9/12/04 4:57:21 PM

ed is the standard text editor.

Post #173,797

by admin

9/12/04 5:14:41 PM

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Post #173,798

9/12/04 5:23:42 PM

Modes are evil.

Or hadn't you heard? ;)

[link|http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=4790|http://www.artima.co...t.jsp?thread=4790]

Post #173,799

9/12/04 5:24:28 PM

Post #173,800

9/12/04 5:25:41 PM

? RTFA

..then the book.

Post #173,801

9/12/04 5:29:00 PM

Post #173,803

9/12/04 5:36:17 PM

Love ya man

Post #173,805

9/12/04 5:38:50 PM

Type faster, Barry! :D

Post #173,807

9/12/04 5:45:30 PM

Huh?

Post #173,806

9/12/04 5:44:09 PM

I did RTFA

And I'm not going to RTFB.

The example of customization for different programmers' keyboards was a good one. Taken to the stupid extreme. So the problem here is all the programmers have the most productive environment for them individually, which then is a detriment to the occasional other programmer on their keyboard.

SO WHAT?

So would you prefer to drop the productivity of ALL of them just so any of them could walk over to any of the other's desk and be able to code at full speed, where full speed is the compromise which means none of them are every fully productive?

Like I explained in my IDE VS Editor rant, it is a matter of tradeoffs. Vi was not my 1st editor, Wordstar was. So my baby chick imprint is non-modal. My 1st full time programmer environment was using vi, but I quickly moved to Brief. Brief was MUCH better. Over the years I moved between various non-modal editors. Visual Slick was also very nice. But when I moved back to vi, by way of gvim, I was much happier.

Gvim has the nice syntax highlighting, GUI touches while staying the hell out of my way.

Modal is evil for some people. Non modal is evil for me. Ctl / Alt / Meta key usage is far more evil. Who has bad wrists, Bill Joy or Richard Stallman? Comes from reaching while a finger is pressing the Ctl key.

Post #173,808

9/12/04 5:51:15 PM

I bet you have one of those evil PC keyboards that put CTRL down in the bottom left corner, where Satan wants it.

Post #173,809

9/12/04 5:55:38 PM

CTRL should only be on the upper keyboard, so you can just lift a knuckle to "hold it up".

Post #173,848

by altmann

9/13/04 3:07:28 AM

Footpedal

Like a pipe organ.

--
Chris Altmann

Post #173,810

9/12/04 6:04:15 PM

Yup

Along with the function keys across the top. I HATE them!

But no, I have not remapped the Control and CapsLock to reverse themselves like some coders I know have done.

Post #173,802

by admin

9/12/04 5:29:04 PM

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Post #173,816

by Yendor

9/12/04 7:58:46 PM

???

-YendorMike

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania

Post #173,817

9/12/04 8:23:46 PM

????

Post #173,818

by Yendor

9/12/04 8:36:16 PM

!!!

-YendorMike

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania

Post #173,822

by Another Scott

9/12/04 8:52:24 PM

Modals wobble but they don't fall down.

[link|http://jeffcovey.net/linux/humor.html|Might as well face it ...]:

Addicted To Vi
(with apologies to Robert Palmer)

You press the keys with no effect,
Your mode is not correct.
The screen blurs, your fingers shake;
You forgot to press escape.
Can't insert, can't delete,
Cursor keys won't repeat.
You try to quit, but can't leave,
An extra "bang" is all you need.

You think it's neat to type an "a" or an "i"--
Oh yeah?
You won't look at emacs, no you'd just rather die
You know you're gonna have to face it;
You're addicted to vi!

You edit files one at a time;
That doesn't seem too out of line?
You don't think of keys to bind--
A meta key would blow your mind.
H, J, K, L? You're not annoyed?
Expressions must be a Joy!
Just press "f", or is it "t"?
Maybe "n", or just "g"?

Oh--You think it's neat to type an "a" or an "i"--
Oh yeah?
You won't look at emacs, no you'd just rather die
You know you're gonna have to face it;
You're addicted to vi!

Might as well face it,
You're addicted to vi!
You press the keys without effect,
Your life is now a wreck.
What a waste! Such a shame!
And all you have is vi to blame.

Oh--You think it's neat to type an "a" or an "i"--
Oh yeah?
You won't look at emacs, no you'd just rather die
You know you're gonna have to face it;
You're addicted to vi!

Might as well face it,
You're addicted to vi!

Cheers,
Scott.
(Who has had the pleasure of avoiding vi since about 1987.)

Post #173,998

by jb4

9/13/04 5:52:22 PM

ROfsckingFL!

My first editor was the RT-11 editor, which some sadist at my first job ported to the Perkin-elmer machines I worked on. Then TECO, which the same sadist also ported (but it beat snot out of RT-11 editor).

Then vi.

Then something, anything else other than vi. vi makes TECO look good!. 'bout that time, PCs started happening, and along with them came word processors and real visual editors. vi became the anachronism it is today....

jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

Post #174,026

by admin

9/13/04 9:33:03 PM

Yep, teco was great.

Type 'exit', replace your entire file with 't'.

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Post #174,028