Wrong question

Post #169,939 by jake123 8/18/04 5:15:23 PM Reply	Wrong question The right question is not "which one pisses away the least amount of taxpayer money" but is instead "how do we get better schools". IMhO decentralising control of curriculum is a good start. It used to be that parents were involved in those things through their local school boards. Now that the curriculum is (in most jurisdictions) set by executive fiat at the state/provincial level, overall success has headed to the cellar. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #169,941 by drewk 8/18/04 5:21:43 PM Reply	Define 'success' If [link\|http://www.google.com/search?q=John+Gatto\|John Gatto] is right, the schools are very successful. === Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
Post #169,991 by jake123 8/18/04 9:36:50 PM Reply	The people he talks about liked centralised setting of curriculum... less people to influence. Back in the day, sensible people kept that from happening. Nowadays, though, the sensible people are no longer in the business of making law... only the bought people do that any more. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #169,964 by bepatient 8/18/04 6:35:08 PM Reply	Amen brutha The farther the national/state governments say away from schooling, the better. Local boards and parental involvement could very well solve this issue. But it may come at a cost that some are not willing to pay. What happens when you get into an extremely religious municipality that wants their children taught religion in school? (lets see the shitstorm that statement will cause amongst our illustrious membership) I am of the opinion that religion SHOULD be taught in school. The basic tenents of all major religions should be something taught to everyone. We should not leave school withough a fundamental understanding of not only our own beleif system...but that of everyone (or the vast majority of those) around the world. (But I digress) If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #169,969 by Another Scott 8/18/04 7:15:17 PM Reply	Few have a problem with comparative religion courses. Or few should, IMO, if it's appropriate for the age group. The problem happens when a public school teacher (or public school system) takes it upon his/herself to teach that a particular religion is correct. Public schools have no business being religious institutions. [link\|http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=LUKE+20:21-26&language=english&version=KJV&showfn=off\|Luke 20:25] and all that. :-) [link\|http://www.thehindu.com/2003/10/22/stories/2003102200891000.htm\|Gandhi] said: On January 20, 1942 Gandhi remarked while discussing the Pakistan scheme: "What conflict of interest can there be between Hindus and Muslims in the matter of revenue, sanitation, police, justice, or the use of public conveniences? The difference can only be in religious usage and observance with which a secular state has no concern." [...] In September 1946, Gandhi told a Christian missionary: "If I were a dictator, religion and state would be separate. I swear by my religion. I will die for it. But it is my personal affair. The state has nothing to do with it. The state would look after your secular welfare, health, communications, foreign relations, currency and so on, but not your or my religion. That is everybody's personal concern!" Gandhi's talk with Rev. Kellas of the Scottish Church College, Calcutta on August 16, 1947, the day after Independence, was reported in Harijan on August 24: "Gandhiji expressed the opinion that the state should undoubtedly be secular. It could never promote denominational education out of public funds. Everyone living in it should be entitled to profess his religion without let or hindrance, so long as the citizen obeyed the common law of the land. There should be no interference with missionary effort, but no mission could enjoy the patronage of the state as it did during the foreign regime." This understanding came subsequently to be reflected in Articles 25, 26 and 27 of the Constitution. He was a wise old [link\|http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=coot\|coot], though he did have some, er, [link\|http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040813.html\|foibles]. Cheers, Scott.
Post #169,970 by Ashton 8/18/04 7:16:15 PM Reply	Heh.. if you really Meant that pro-bono bone I'd go along with that too, PROVIDING that, and in equal-italics, the case is made as brilliantly, ardently and [of course completely-without-bias] for: Eschewing any one or several, of the 100.0%-man-spawned Corporate Religions covered; this in the spirit of (to pick just one) I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. (Think that was one of Mike's) I Don't Believe! that the body-politic has the Guts to train-up tads with sound ethical principles, finely-crafted BS-filters and - put their *Ah Believe __!!s* anywhere near! sane exploration, (even if the survival of the species were in dire straits for the fact of inculcation in the same-old endless war -generating mantra. As obv It Is.) I doubt.. that you believe they would, either, but it Sounds so Kewl. And so nicely theoretical. ;-j
Post #169,976 by bepatient 8/18/04 8:30:08 PM Reply	I had such a class. And I believe it can be done. Course, "I have a dream" and all that. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #169,997 by Ashton 8/18/04 9:44:45 PM Reply	+ 4 for Possibilities, then..
Post #169,981 by JayMehaffey 8/18/04 9:08:05 PM Reply	Ya but Comparative religion is a great idea in school. But it is exactly the religious people that block that, not the atheists. No fundamentalist can tolerate the idea that their children might be taught that most religions are very similar at their core or that the offical histories contained in all religious tracts are equally bogus. Too much touchy-feely and esteem based teaching comes from the left, but the right has done just as much damage to schools as the left. A lot of history and science is intentionally blotched out to keep it from offending the sensibilities of the religious. Jay
Post #169,984 by deSitter 8/18/04 9:25:37 PM Reply	Exactly Both sides are narcissitically opposed to doing what's best for the kids. This issue shows very clearly that BOTH sides, the Shrubs and the MoveOn-ers, are cut from the same whole cloth. BOTH are steeped in the self-centered, flag-waving bullshit of the 50s and 60s (one's a freak flag but no real difference), both grew up in the Me-generation, chemically-fogged 70s, both got greedy in the go-go 80s, both found God to handle their trust funds in the 90s. Now it's the New World Order and each side needs the other to maintain its low moral ground. -drl
Post #169,993 by jake123 8/18/04 9:39:59 PM Reply	I was taught religion in school It didn't do me any harm. Mind you, I was taught about religion, not given religious instruction. Teaching about religion should be done, but religious instruction should be kept out of public schools. That said, if folks in the bible belt want to teach creationism, I don't necessarily think that's bad. What I DO object to is teaching creationism and calling it science, which is what a lot of the looney tunes do seem to want to do. 'Course, I also recognise that my ability to influence that one way or another is pretty limited, seeing as I live a long way away from the bible belt. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #169,995 by boxley 8/18/04 9:41:47 PM Reply	whats the distance between Kingston and peterboro? These miserable swine, having nothing but illusions to live on, marshmallows for the soul in place of good meat, will now stoop to any disgusting level to prevent even those miserable morsels from vanishing into thin air. The country is being destroyed by these stupid, vicious right-wing fanatics, the spiritual brothers of the brownshirts and redstars, collectivists and authoritarians all, who would not know freedom if it bit them on the ass, who spend all their time trying to stamp, bludgeon, and eviscerate the very idea of the individual's right to his own private world. DRL questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #169,999 by jake123 8/18/04 9:50:28 PM Reply	Well, they must not be religious anymore 'cause the good lord served 'em a smackdown earlier this summer:) It's a four hour drive, btw. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #170,001 by boxley 8/18/04 9:59:02 PM Reply	place has more penatacostals tha Santa Clara has vampires :) These miserable swine, having nothing but illusions to live on, marshmallows for the soul in place of good meat, will now stoop to any disgusting level to prevent even those miserable morsels from vanishing into thin air. The country is being destroyed by these stupid, vicious right-wing fanatics, the spiritual brothers of the brownshirts and redstars, collectivists and authoritarians all, who would not know freedom if it bit them on the ass, who spend all their time trying to stamp, bludgeon, and eviscerate the very idea of the individual's right to his own private world. DRL questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #170,434 by jake123 8/20/04 12:03:09 PM Reply	Well, that explains the smackdown then. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------

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