Wish I was.

It's large of you to try to assist. I think that, by now you have enough phones-on experience with "aberrant individuals" to appreciate that there are severe limits to what anyone-not-They can accomplish - which actually *helps*. (We are all in this boat re "someone who Isn't moi".) Hope you can avert taking-on all that personal angst, admirable as such an attitude appears, on the face of it.

(My own view is 'an aberrant one' too) - I imagine that the odds of his seeking (and Finding!) an actually effective form of 'therapy' are vanishingly small. First-off, given the state of 'medical care' in US - This Co$ts Lots (even when it's ineffective or even if the 'method' is just plain idiotic, but Popular).

I don't think you can achieve much via the standard-ez-cheap HMO-means, now almost universally enforced: adding some new witch's brew of More pharm-chem into a nervous system and immune system likely functioning quite poorly over many years. The standard US diet is oblivious to the needs of a truly healthy digestive system --> which also affects the immune system in myriad ways we barely understand at all.

If you add-in possibly regular OTC other chemicals to a bunch of 'personal issues': where would a Good Samaritan begin?

There are ways to detoxify, even after a pattern of rilly Bad eating and other habits; to my knowledge and experience, every one of these approaches demands (at least) 3 qualifications:

An awareness as large as a 'conviction' - that one needs to alter long-standing eating and other habits, to live.

A sincere willingness to bite that bullet of 'change', and to stay with the method over many months, at the very least. 'Weeks' aren't enough.

'Conditions' - at home, work? [and in the mind] as will at least not-sabotage the efforts. Conditions also involve $$ as always - really Good food is also not cheap - supply/demand. (That doesn't mean it isn't tasty - quite the opposite).

I've seen the effects of such changes in regimen and while "I don't do regimens" [Hah] I'm experimenting with one which I've recently seen save someone's life, literally. (Which I deemed a sufficient reason to verify some things for myself - call it Science.)

For the unwilling, as-in combative, disturbed or merely doggedly stubborn person -?- Save Your Breath. As Fritz Perls liked to say, "You are not here to meet my expectations and I am not here to meet yours". (That's not all he said, but it does tend to Get One's Attention)

Luck, Owlet - you are quite less infuriating than early-on, and you've said some actually wise things IMO; guess we won't have to stuff you / mount on teak perch, etc.

er, :-\ufffd

It's large of you to try to assist. I think that, by now you have enough phones-on experience with "aberrant individuals" to appreciate that there are severe limits to what anyone-not-They can accomplish - which actually *helps*. (We are all in this boat re "someone who Isn't moi".) Hope you can avert taking-on all that personal angst, admirable as such an attitude appears, on the face of it.

Thanks Ashton, I wasn't sure whether to post that, but I didn't want anyone to think I was behind any of it. I realize there is only so much I can do, but I worry because he has a child, and well, if I can do anything to help I try.

Luck, Owlet - you are quite less infuriating than early-on, and you've said some actually wise things IMO; guess we won't have to stuff you / mount on teak perch, etc.

Hehehe, well I've tried hard to be less infuriating, honest. I've tried to take in all the input here and adjust my posting levels and posting content accordingly, although I still tend to talk about myself in third person sometimes, (Sorry, Ross), I don't mean to, it just slips out because it's a fun habit I share with John.

I think I have quite enough "stuffed" owls anyway. ;)

Nightowl >8#

Post #169,901 by Nightowl 8/18/04 2:31:21 PM Reply	Wish I was. I privately asked certain members in my group to not react to his posts, so maybe.... Nightowl >8# "A determined soul will do more with a rusty monkey wrench than a loafer will accomplish with all the tools in a machine shop." -- Robert Hughes, Australian Art Critic, Writer
Post #169,925 by Ashton 8/18/04 4:44:22 PM Reply	Re: Wish I was. It's large of you to try to assist. I think that, by now you have enough phones-on experience with "aberrant individuals" to appreciate that there are severe limits to what anyone-not-They can accomplish - which actually helps. (We are all in this boat re "someone who Isn't moi".) Hope you can avert taking-on all that personal angst, admirable as such an attitude appears, on the face of it. (My own view is 'an aberrant one' too) - I imagine that the odds of his seeking (and Finding!) an actually effective form of 'therapy' are vanishingly small. First-off, given the state of 'medical care' in US - This Co$ts Lots (even when it's ineffective or even if the 'method' is just plain idiotic, but Popular). I don't think you can achieve much via the standard-ez-cheap HMO-means, now almost universally enforced: adding some new witch's brew of More pharm-chem into a nervous system and immune system likely functioning quite poorly over many years. The standard US diet is oblivious to the needs of a truly healthy digestive system --> which also affects the immune system in myriad ways we barely understand at all. If you add-in possibly regular OTC other chemicals to a bunch of 'personal issues': where would a Good Samaritan begin? There are ways to detoxify, even after a pattern of rilly Bad eating and other habits; to my knowledge and experience, every one of these approaches demands (at least) 3 qualifications: An awareness as large as a 'conviction' - that one needs to alter long-standing eating and other habits, to live. A sincere willingness to bite that bullet of 'change', and to stay with the method over many months, at the very least. 'Weeks' aren't enough. 'Conditions' - at home, work? [and in the mind] as will at least not-sabotage the efforts. Conditions also involve $$ as always - really Good food is also not cheap - supply/demand. (That doesn't mean it isn't tasty - quite the opposite). I've seen the effects of such changes in regimen and while "I don't do regimens" [Hah] I'm experimenting with one which I've recently seen save someone's life, literally. (Which I deemed a sufficient reason to verify some things for myself - call it Science.) For the unwilling, as-in combative, disturbed or merely doggedly stubborn person -?- Save Your Breath. As Fritz Perls liked to say, "You are not here to meet my expectations and I am not here to meet yours". (That's not all he said, but it does tend to Get One's Attention) Luck, Owlet - you are quite less infuriating than early-on, and you've said some actually wise things IMO; guess we won't have to stuff you / mount on teak perch, etc. er, :-\ufffd
Post #169,930 by Nightowl 8/18/04 4:54:31 PM Reply	Wow... thanks It's large of you to try to assist. I think that, by now you have enough phones-on experience with "aberrant individuals" to appreciate that there are severe limits to what anyone-not-They can accomplish - which actually helps. (We are all in this boat re "someone who Isn't moi".) Hope you can avert taking-on all that personal angst, admirable as such an attitude appears, on the face of it. Thanks Ashton, I wasn't sure whether to post that, but I didn't want anyone to think I was behind any of it. I realize there is only so much I can do, but I worry because he has a child, and well, if I can do anything to help I try. Luck, Owlet - you are quite less infuriating than early-on, and you've said some actually wise things IMO; guess we won't have to stuff you / mount on teak perch, etc. Hehehe, well I've tried hard to be less infuriating, honest. I've tried to take in all the input here and adjust my posting levels and posting content accordingly, although I still tend to talk about myself in third person sometimes, (Sorry, Ross), I don't mean to, it just slips out because it's a fun habit I share with John. I think I have quite enough "stuffed" owls anyway. ;) Nightowl >8# "A determined soul will do more with a rusty monkey wrench than a loafer will accomplish with all the tools in a machine shop." -- Robert Hughes, Australian Art Critic, Writer
Post #170,025 by orion 8/19/04 12:08:03 AM Reply	I've had enough help from people who are not qualified to give help. If you all really care about me, you'd quit picking on me and let me handle this myself and with my doctor. I had to double my medicine recently to get into a better state. The more you push and shove and pick on me and bring up past behaviors, the more likely my suicidal thoughts will return, and I cannot afford that. So I am asking nicely to please lay off. *"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift* [link\|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268\|I am from District 268].
Post #170,028 by inthane-chan 8/19/04 12:12:24 AM Reply	Until there is a firm delineating line between "normal" and "mad" Orion, it will be impossible to tell when you are starting to slip over the line, and thus to stop responding to you. So, you leave us two options - stop responding to you entirely, or to ignore your advice. As far as giving away your secret, it's pretty much out in the open already - your own actions have shown the truth much better than any single post any of us have ever put down. What will we do when we are Gods?
Post #170,031 by orion 8/19/04 12:20:27 AM Reply	Why then, oh why, do hardly none of you take those two options and instead degrade me, call me an idiot, etc? *"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift* [link\|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268\|I am from District 268].
Post #170,032 by inthane-chan 8/19/04 12:22:22 AM Reply	Did I call you an idiot? Seriously? Did I? What will we do when we are Gods?
Post #170,035 by orion 8/19/04 12:26:30 AM 8/19/04 1:01:17 PM Reply	In a manner of speaking I often get my intelligence questioned here by many people, so many that it is hard to keep score, or tell people apart. Just another part of my illness, I guess? Yet you never defended me when others called me an idiot, and you don't really seem to be following your own advice to ignore me or avoid my advice. Thus in a way you are calling me an idiot, thinking that I'll believe you that you'll ignore me, when clearly you are not. *"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift* [link\|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268\|I am from District 268]. Edited by orion Aug. 19, 2004, 01:01:17 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #170,142 by folkert 8/19/04 1:14:48 PM Reply	Thane... Now I get to say: Stop it! Not worth it anymore. Drop it. If we try to be concerned he will just make the situation worse to get more concern. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source] Here is an example: [link\|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/\|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
Post #170,148 by orion 8/19/04 1:18:25 PM Reply	Yes please do drop it that is what I want, to be left alone. To have people stop trying to "snap me out of it" and let me get out of it on my own and with my doctor's help. *"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift* [link\|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268\|I am from District 268].
Post #170,150 by folkert 8/19/04 1:19:09 PM Reply	Then quite blowing smoke up our Arses. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source] Here is an example: [link\|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/\|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
Post #170,152 by pwhysall 8/19/04 1:20:25 PM Reply	Smoking Spelunkasscrackery! Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #170,159 by orion 8/19/04 1:23:30 PM Reply	Spoken like a true master of it you do seem to use it a lot, don't you? *"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift* [link\|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268\|I am from District 268].
Post #170,165 by pwhysall 8/19/04 1:27:46 PM Reply	? I think I can safely say that this is the first time today that I've used the word "spelunkasscrackery". Er, second. :) Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #170,170 by orion 8/19/04 1:30:50 PM Reply	Going with that since you've invented the word, I can safely say that you are not only the expert at it, but a master at it. Whatever it is, as I don't know a thing about it. *"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift* [link\|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268\|I am from District 268].
Post #170,173 by pwhysall 8/19/04 1:32:22 PM Reply	Ask Greg about full-body-cavity searches. Or don't, depending on whether you've (a) had lunch and (b) want to hang onto it. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #170,952 by orion 8/25/04 3:50:01 PM Reply	Ask Greg why he ignores his own advice inquiring minds would like to know. *"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift* [link\|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268\|I am from District 268].
Post #171,023 by folkert 8/26/04 9:08:48 AM Reply	STFU JA. IANAG but close. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source] Here is an example: [link\|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/\|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
Post #170,153 by orion 8/19/04 1:21:07 PM Reply	No smoke I am only defending myself from those who are being unfair. *"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift* [link\|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268\|I am from District 268].
Post #170,158 by folkert 8/19/04 1:22:27 PM Reply	No, blowing smoke up our bloody arses. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source] Here is an example: [link\|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/\|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
Post #170,161 by orion 8/19/04 1:24:32 PM Reply	I've done no such thing I am not even in the same room as you guys. It is physically impossible to do. *"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift* [link\|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268\|I am from District 268].
Post #170,162 by folkert 8/19/04 1:24:45 PM Reply	You are continuing to right now. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source] Here is an example: [link\|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/\|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
Post #170,164 by orion 8/19/04 1:27:28 PM Reply	I disagree, I am certainly not I am just telling you that you are wrong. You have nothing to base it on. *"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift* [link\|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268\|I am from District 268].
Post #170,166 by inthane-chan 8/19/04 1:28:18 PM Reply	Doctor, heed thy own advice. ;)
Post #170,168 by orion 8/19/04 1:29:27 PM Reply	I fully agree I only reply to his posts, if he stopped making them, I'd stop replying. So simple, yet it eludes his grasp of it. *"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift* [link\|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268\|I am from District 268].
Post #170,188 by folkert 8/19/04 1:55:42 PM Reply	Did. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source] Here is an example: [link\|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/\|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
Post #170,131 by broomberg 8/19/04 12:34:13 PM Reply	It is pretty clear [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=169141\|http://z.iwethey.org...?contentid=169141]
Post #170,136 by boxley 8/19/04 1:06:58 PM Reply	next post down is the one you want These miserable swine, having nothing but illusions to live on, marshmallows for the soul in place of good meat, will now stoop to any disgusting level to prevent even those miserable morsels from vanishing into thin air. The country is being destroyed by these stupid, vicious right-wing fanatics, the spiritual brothers of the brownshirts and redstars, collectivists and authoritarians all, who would not know freedom if it bit them on the ass, who spend all their time trying to stamp, bludgeon, and eviscerate the very idea of the individual's right to his own private world. DRL questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]

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