Post #165,927
7/25/04 2:49:13 PM
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A nation of cheaters
[link|http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-cheat25.html|http://www.suntimes....-nws-cheat25.html]
Education as we've known it is finished. Even in my day people used walkie talkies stored in the bathroom to call frat brothers with answers.
The motivation is what puzzles me - if you are a cheat, how can you derive any self-esteem from getting into a good school? We seem to live under the assumption that what is hidden, never happened. Again and again we see that one of our root problems is simple lack of shame. This MUST be a direct consequence of new-age elementary schooling. Failure needs to be an option.
-drl
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Post #165,931
7/25/04 4:00:04 PM
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Wow! Something we agree on!
I've been wondering if the Universities are "too far gone", with respect to allowing faculty to monitor tests.
I'm wondering if there's a business out there providing a "testing facility" in University towns.
Here's the concept. Take something like ProMetric, which performs CCNE certs, Oracle, DB2, Microsoft, and put it into colleges for the 3-4 major exams that are usually given per semester.
The student would pay $10-20 to take each test in a "controlled" environment. Licenses/student ids would be checked, tests handed out, and possibly even appropriate calculators would be provided at each station.
Each testing cube would be recorded electronically during the test, so if there was a question later, the video could be consulted for signs of cheating. More important tests could be priced higher, and the video reviewed for cheating.
All cell phones, PDAs, personal calculators would be held by the testing center during the test.
It doesn't help with students getting the answers from other students (although tests given electronically could vary up the test itself, like the ProMetric tests do).
Hrm....
Do you think there are any Universities out there that would be willing to consider working on such an approach?
Glen Austin
(On another note, I've gotten no replies to several of my prior posts, so I'm beginning to think that there is a "Glen Godwin" going on, or maybe everyone agrees with what I'm saying. If you guys don't want me here, then drop me a line to gdaustin at comcast dot net and let me know. I'll stop wasting my time.)
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Post #165,933
7/25/04 4:06:57 PM
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I enjoy your stuff. Just don't have much to say about it.
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Post #165,934
7/25/04 4:16:55 PM
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hang out here, yer fine
Anchorage AK: House for sale 3 bed 1 bath 1440 sq feet huge lot near Cheney Lake 175K FSBO 813.273.3518
I wondered what Darwinian moment had to effect itself before we devolved from children flying paper flags in the sky to half formed creatures thundering in a wall of horns down the road to Roncevaux. James Lee Burke
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #165,936
7/25/04 4:19:30 PM
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Did someone just write something?
hehe.
Hey, some people just don't see the need to comment of everything.
So it seems your posts fall through the cracks.
Don't take it personally.
DeSitter goes over the deep end politically and socially which triggers reactions, or scientifically, which triggers "ooh, ahh, cool".
Lincoln does unemployment articles, how awful the world it, how depressed we should be. DeSitter then agrees with him.
Box babbles with some pretty neat observations / stories. Sometimes kicks a religous bent article around.
Al6x (some more 6s there) goes pro-Palestine / anti Israel, while Box goes the reverse, which occasional other kicking in. Since Al6x has some of the most intense personal history there, his viewpoint is always welcome to me, even if I'm more on Box's side of the argument.
Thane has some interesting observations, but it seems that he's got a few more years of being beaten down ahead of him. I think in about 10 years something amazing will blossom.
Ben Tilly is one of the smartest / well read people I've ever met. If I find myself on the other side of an argument with him, I'd do some serious research before opening my mouth.
Ashton goes strong left wing, with obscure references and interesting phrasing. Sometime I understand him, but often not. I tend to zone when he goes over 3 paragraphs since my brain stops filling in words I don't know at that bpoint. Sometime I plug them into dictionary.com, but often they just don't exist and I don't know enough about the base of the word to figure out what he MIGHT mean in it's usage.
Sorry if I missed anyone (actually many, I'm just done babbling at this point).
I tend to offer up things that cause major reactions. Sometimes for fun, but often I'll learn something in the ensuing maelstrom. Or I'll whine about my kids, or health stuff, and let off a little steam.
Your business offerings don't really ring true as things that are both needed and fundable. Often they go against politically entrenched methods of doing things, which in turn makes them a serious battle. They may make you a mint, or they may make you a sad bitter old man. Either way, I really don't have anything constructive to offer, so I tend not to respond.
Happy, you got a major response out of me?
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Post #165,959
7/25/04 5:25:15 PM
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Gee, thanks.
I think.
;)
WANTED: Precognitive Telepath for adventuring Partnership. You know where to apply.
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Post #165,972
7/25/04 7:47:24 PM
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Zymurgy.
.. and what used to be called Moderate is now labelled far-'Left' in the slithery scale of compassionate 'Conservatism' (as would have Barry Goldwater crying ~ "Nazi! and Not My Idea of Conservative\ufffd")
er, cha cha cha
And yeah, your fondness for a certain amount of stick-poking \ufffd l\ufffd Rick Moen is noted -- another loss of oft extremely pithy quotes ... fallout in the loss of Our Karsten (however parially self-inflicted, that).
'We' are not Immune from terminal bitchiness & sanctimony, yet most fortunately not of the unredeemable ilk (or, mostly- not of the actively malevolent - til someone mentions Leviticus or Attila as recommended lifestyle ;-).
moi
Das Lied von der mErde
The man who has made up his mind for all contingencies will often be too quick for one who tries to understand.
Pieter Geyl via Wolf, on Bridge
America -- an obscene fascination with itself.
Norman Mailer
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Post #165,982
7/25/04 9:58:15 PM
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Fermentation? Brewing? Huh?
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Post #166,363
7/27/04 7:53:40 PM
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You forgot someone - yourself
Broomberg talks about how all mainframes suck, even though he tries to push them beyond their designed capabilities - guess the designers are all to blame. Of course, he wouldn't even have a job in this industry if mainframes didn't exist for the past 50 years or so. His posts carry the theme that any OS that is *nix is great; all others pale in comparison. Guess he heard about all of the viruses written for OS/360, OS/370, OS/400, Tandem Guardian, etc.; oh wait, none of those have ever had a virus written for them, and those OS's are NOT *nix. (And if you say Tandem's Guardian is written in Unix, I'm still waiting for you to prove it.) His general posting attitude is that he thinks that he's better than just about everyone here. Hubris - thy name is Broomberg.
lincoln
"Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times
[link|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net|contact me]
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Post #166,365
7/27/04 7:56:20 PM
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Troll, thy name is Lincoln ;)
(Yes, I know, I know - Barry does tend to get preachy sometimes...)
WANTED: Precognitive Telepath for adventuring Partnership. You know where to apply.
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Post #166,523
7/28/04 7:53:19 PM
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He'd be more tolerable
if he didn't carry so much PHB attitude up with him on that pedistal he gets on every morning.
lincoln
"Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times
[link|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net|contact me]
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Post #165,942
7/25/04 4:32:41 PM
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I often don't agree with you - you're politically...
...a bit too American, and socially too religious, for me to agree with you in those areas -- but then on other stuff (software, economy) I often do.
Only, in the latter cases, what would be the use of YAN "Yeah!" or "Me Too!!!" post? And, in the former... What's the use? Nothing I can say will probably make you See The Light on those issues. ;-/
That's why *I* often don't respond to you -- but rest assured, I read most of what you write, and am glad for the opportunity to. (BTW, that goes for most of you guys I don't regularly respond to... not quite all, but most! :-)
So please, Glen, do keep 'em coming!
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #166,100
7/26/04 1:49:49 PM
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Yeah, but by NOT saying anything
we are deprived (or depraved?) of your surgical use of "colorful metaphors"!
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #165,948
7/25/04 4:52:46 PM
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I read all your posts and even agree with some! ;)
Appearences of your posts going down to the bit bucket are deceiving.
Alex
"If I seem unduly clear to you, you must have misunderstood what I said." -- Alan Greenspan, Federal Reserve chairman
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Post #165,950
7/25/04 4:57:18 PM
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Re: I read all your posts and even agree with some! ;)
I think everyone mostly reads everything, other than some forums that get ignored on principle.
-drl
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Post #165,974
7/25/04 8:27:36 PM
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Re: Wow! Something we agree on!
As to enhanced proctoring.. seems to me that, where widespread dishonesty is not merely rampant in bizness-'04 -- but a necessity (to at least simulate 'agreement') in order to Remain One of The Team\ufffd -- it's a bit late for enforcing standards alien to what the tyke has acquired by osmosis (listening to Momn'Dad's replay of each day's office atrocities and language murder by TLA).
Technically - surely compliance might be achieved (all tests in an RF-screened room, with white noise full spectrum transmitter of a few watts, to drown out whatever you missed). But if the tad doesn't know Why not-to-cheat.. of WTF Use was his university liberal-edjaKayshun ??
[As 'we' took back The Flag from the farRightful.. so shall we winnow back the utterly Sane notion of a Liberal attitude] towards all information presented - new & old, from full recogniton of the fact that stuff We All Know is as apt to be a POS as .. any blab-word readily demonstrates. Science, for ex. done by a full-farRightful Cabal would be: cf. This Admin's "way with science" (in now several linked posts). Galileo redux.
I read your posts; sometimes with a Me-too! reply, other times as - beyond discussion ie. (What I have imperfectly accumulated re, of what a 'Baptist' sect POV likely comprises) - say, The One True Religion VS all Wrong-ones on the planet?
We see that this cannot be parsed; similarly -'homosexuals --> God Didn't MAKE Those' / they can 'reform' cha cha cha or say, how much of her body a woman Owns? / and When. Well, you see... a certain number of Taboos (no not the perfume, that's Tab\ufffd)
But then you are not 'all Baptists' - as vacuous a label as imagining there is any such thing as The Murican Peepul. Most here are likely to realize that (too). I fancy we two are not so far apart as to a ~sane policy of safeguarding workers' survival via also much more *regularly* inspecting Corporate Rulez and offshore-havens (than a fanatic Libertarion would Ever want == 0-oversight \ufffd l\ufffd Mr. Galt and folks like My Gramma).
So you are neither unloved nor unwanted; stats on %reply notwithstanding
:-\ufffd
moi
Who, had I ever imagined self to have become Universally Loved -?- would know instantly that I had succumbed to Universal Niceness - and had always said.. quite nothing-at-all. (Which may also be true, but at least not from innate sycophancy ;-)
Paranoia is what happens to the minority when the majority abandons vigilance.
via cwbrenn
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Post #166,001
7/25/04 11:53:53 PM
7/26/04 12:01:21 AM
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Thanks for the Vote of Confidence Guys...
By the way, I've been reading a book recently called "Running On Empty: Contemplative Spirituality for Over Acheivers" by Fil Anderson. The book has hit me pretty hard, because it is making me realize that I'm so busy, I'm killing myself.
Here's the poem at the start of the "A World Stuck on Fast Forward" Chapter.
We learned how to make a living, but not a life;
we've added years to life, but not life to years.
We've cleaned up the air, but polluted the soul.
We've split the atom, but not our prejudice.
We plan more, but accomplish less.
We've learned to rush, but not to wait.
These are the days of quick trips, disposable diapers,
throw-away morality, one-night stands, overweight bodies,
and pills that to do everything from cheer, to quiet, to kill.
It is a time when there is much in the show window,
but nothing in the stockroom.
It seems as though the poem from the book I'm reading says it all. These cheaters have a lot on their resume, but nothing in the proverbial "stockroom" when it's time to do the job.
Glen Austin
"It is a time when there is much in the show window, but nothing in the stockroom."
PS - I've just finished the Solitude chapter, but I need to re-read it because I didn't have solitude when I was reading it. I tried to hurry through a book whose fundamental message is to advise me to SLOW DOWN.
Edited by gdaustin
July 25, 2004, 11:55:17 PM EDT
Edited by gdaustin
July 26, 2004, 12:01:21 AM EDT
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Post #166,002
7/26/04 12:14:13 AM
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Gonna have to get me a copy of that book
Sounds very interesting
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #166,004
7/26/04 12:31:43 AM
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Service exists
Go take the GMAT. Administered by a private company - using computers that track times- no gadgets allowed and you are video taped while you take it.
I don't think its worth while working on proctoring techniques. Rather, we have to instill the values in the first place. We do a lousy job at that.
This is actually shaping up to be the first semester I haven't found blatent cheating in my class (and its small - only 15 or so will finish it).
OTOH, my tests require you to write code - no multiple guess - no short answer - no formulas - write a function called this taking that returning the other called something that does this.
The only way to learn to program is to write code.
That was lovely cheese.
--Wallace, The Wrong Trousers
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Post #166,011
7/26/04 1:23:38 AM
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ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #166010 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=166010|ICLRPD]
--
Steve
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Post #166,102
7/26/04 1:53:13 PM
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Uh-ohh! Don't give them that one in your C++ class!
"Write a function called this..."
I doesn't think so....
;-\ufffd
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #166,103
7/26/04 1:54:04 PM
7/26/04 1:55:03 PM
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There's an A for the student that can make that work ;-)
That was lovely cheese.
--Wallace, The Wrong Trousers
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Post #166,106
7/26/04 1:57:58 PM
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All they have to do is use a 2.x gcc compiler...
/me ducks for cover...
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #166,111
7/26/04 2:10:54 PM
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Class compiler is gcc 3.3
That was lovely cheese.
--Wallace, The Wrong Trousers
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Post #166,107
7/26/04 1:59:58 PM
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Hmm
Does a "Kobyashi Maru" solution work? That is, modify the compiler source code?
(BTW is this possible, seriously? Or is "this" a sacred token?)
-drl
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Post #166,159
7/26/04 5:01:46 PM
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It's a sacred token
but that doesn't mean that a minor compiler fiddle could change the token name to something like 'self' (that's for you, Conrad...)
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #166,171
7/26/04 6:07:17 PM
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self is what all the real OO languages use
That was lovely cheese.
--Wallace, The Wrong Trousers
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Post #166,160
7/26/04 5:01:58 PM
7/26/04 5:02:22 PM
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Dupe...Ignore
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
Edited by jb4
July 26, 2004, 05:02:22 PM EDT
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Post #166,163
7/26/04 5:12:49 PM
7/26/04 5:13:52 PM
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#define this THIS
Using "this" directly is not a frequent occurence in C++. As long as you don't, the above think will work. And if you do, you can always say
#undef this
before and
#define this THIS
after.
Can you say code obfuscation? I knew you could.
Edit: btw, in a cource on OO in C++, this deserves an F, not an A.
8<-------------------------------------------
#include <stdio.h>
#define this THIS
class A {
public:
A() : this(10){}
void printThis() {
printf("%d\\n", this);
}
private:
int this;
};
int main(int argc, char *argv[]) {
A a;
a.printThis();
}
--
"...was poorly, lugubrious and intoxicated."
-- Patrick O'Brian, "Master and Commander"
Edited by Arkadiy
July 26, 2004, 05:13:52 PM EDT
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Post #166,165
7/26/04 5:15:15 PM
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Or for extra emphasis:
#define this THIS *THIS*, DAMMIT!
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #166,197
7/26/04 9:43:30 PM
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ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #166196 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=166196|ICLRPD]
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #166,175
7/26/04 7:04:00 PM
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That shouldn't be allowed then
On VC++ 6
#define this THIS
void main(void) {}
compiles OK
but
#define { BEGIN
#define } END
void main(void)
BEGIN
END
doesn't.
So it's a nethertoken.
-drl
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Post #166,177
7/26/04 7:12:40 PM
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That's because you've got your #DEFINE statements backwards.
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Post #166,178
7/26/04 7:16:55 PM
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-ugh-
-drl
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Post #166,020
7/26/04 8:35:04 AM
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Devil in the details tho
Sounds like it could be a good idea, but from where I sit (the IT department of an insurance company), let me see -- "outsourcing: ah, that's a rug of a different color" for your dust sweepings to go under.
I'm not a complete idiot -- some parts are missing
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Post #166,022
7/26/04 9:10:40 AM
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Dunno, Ross.
Education as we've known it is finished. Even in my day people used walkie talkies stored in the bathroom to call frat brothers with answers. This isn't anything new - cheating has always been a part of the US way of thought AFAICS. "Everything is legal if you don't get caught". In fact, there has always been a 'sly admiration' in our culture for people that 'get away with it'. A lot of the so-called moral outrage you see is more along the lines of "I couldn't get away with it, why should YOU" rather than "That is the wrong thing for anybody to do". The motivation is what puzzles me - if you are a cheat, how can you derive any self-esteem from getting into a good school? Motivation for school is seldom self-esteem, or even interest in learning. Instead, it's a stepping-stone to monetary success. Cheating is just 'get rich quick' thinking. Again and again we see that one of our root problems is simple lack of shame. This MUST be a direct consequence of new-age elementary schooling. Failure needs to be an option. I dunno about the causal relationship, here. I think new-age schooling (where there is no fault, blame or true failure) and the cheater's mentality both have root causes in the loss of the concept of personal responsibility here in the 'States. And I think the root of THAT is our overly litigious legal system. Of course, that we have allowed our legal system to become the joke it is is all of our collective faults. And no, I don't know how to fix the problem now that it's woven itself into our society.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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