Need opinions .. Who do I offend

Post #160,807 by jbrabeck 6/21/04 1:34:05 PM Reply	Need opinions .. Who do I offend I've already committed the action and will divulge what my choice was later. Here's the question. One of my biological daughters lives with her mom 'cuz she and my wife don't get along. IMHO both are to blame, but of course, each of them blames the other. My daughter invited me (without her sibling and without stepmom) to dinner (7:00 p.m.) for Father's Day. Wanted to pick me up, pay for dinner, and bring me home. Wife thought that was rude and improper. Do I go out with daughter or stay home with wife? IOW who's doghouse do I select?
Post #160,809 by deSitter 6/21/04 1:35:50 PM Reply	Neither You tell them both to piss off, and go fishing. -drl
Post #160,810 by ChrisR 6/21/04 1:37:33 PM Reply	Father's day is for kids And since she was picking up the tab, she can set the agenda - whether intentional rude or not.
Post #160,813 by admin 6/21/04 1:39:53 PM Reply	Wife can stuff herself. As Chris pointed out, it was Father's Day. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #160,823 by folkert 6/21/04 2:18:02 PM Reply	Ditto... -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Heard near the SCOG employee entry/exit way: `Security: We got another Mass Exodus Doorway Jam.`
Post #160,811 by inthane-chan 6/21/04 1:38:41 PM Reply	Daughter. After all, she's the one who excluded the others. Here's a maxim that I try to remember: "When you divide a group into 'us' and 'them', you automatically become one of 'them.'" Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain. You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today. And then one day you find ten years have got behind you. No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
Post #160,814 by Yendor 6/21/04 1:40:34 PM Reply	Hmmm... Your wife sees you every day of the year (or some reasonable semblance thereof.) Not so for your daughter (I'm guessing from the living situation as stated.) Go to dinner with your daughter. -YendorMike [link\|http://www.hope-ride.org/\|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
Post #160,815 by ben_tilly 6/21/04 1:46:05 PM Reply	I would offend BOTH! Tell your daughter that you'd love to do that dinner with her..another night. Here's why you offend your daughter. You have other daughters, both by biology and choice. If there is any chance that they want to have you for Father's day, it isn't right for one daughter to take you away from them. It is wrong for her to try to turn an attempt at generosity into a fight over who you care about. However you do want dinner with your daughter. Here's why you offend your wife. She has no more right than your daughter does to say who you can and cannot deal with. Your daughter matters to you. That is right and appropriate. Cheers, Ben To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link\|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20\|Nebraska Supreme Court]
Post #160,818 by Steve Lowe 6/21/04 2:06:32 PM Reply	ditto -- Steve
Post #160,871 by dmarker 6/21/04 6:52:17 PM Reply	Then who is it that becomes the polititian ? The problem in situations like this is turning it into something bigger than it is. Daughter issued an invite to her dad on father's day - questioning her motives and making assumptions is challenging. At face value it is perfectly legit. Issue of Daughter & step-mom is between them & dragging dad into any issue they have is playing politics but that doesn't override daughter's legit right to Father's day dinner invitation to her dad. If dad is in a reasonable position to accept then why not. He may or may not want to make comments to her on why others are being excluded but remember that Father's day is exactly that & daughter has some reasonable right to offer the invite so she can have special time just with her Father. As for other sibling, again any issue between inviting daughter & other sibling is between them & for them to deal with. If Dad insists that he won't attend unless with an uninvited guest then everyone is politicising the event and allowing it to driver deeper divisions than already exist. But to decide to piss everyone off as a 'payback' is a cut--your-nose-off-to-spite-your-face act of stupidity. But for outsiders who are not emotionally involved or committed to the relationships involved, such an act of stupidity may seem justifiable. Cheers Doug (yup I have a daughter who is very cool to my 2nd wife (even though my 1st wife & 2nd get on reasonably well). I do get miffed when my daughter or 2nd wife try to get 'political' in regard to the other and I politely let them know it & that I see it for what it is. I can't stop it, that is up to them. I do what I can to mitigate it but that is all I can reasonably do. Sad fact of life.) _________________________________________________________ "Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!". -- Leonardo Da Vinci
Post #160,914 by ben_tilly 6/21/04 10:10:22 PM Reply	Every family is different I come from a pretty complex family with lots of interesting conflicts, and the way that I suggested acting is in line with how I handle things. It seems to work fairly well. The key for me is to avoid making anything into a political statement, and particularly to avoid letting two people fight through me. Yes, stuff can be politicized. However it can often also be defused. Dad isn't insisting that the occasion only happen with an uninvited guest. Quite explicitly not. Dad is just insisting that the occasion happen when it is most convenient for him. Everything else is exactly as she planned. Given multiple demands on his time, this is very reasonable, and few people in my experience much care if date moves slightly. The daughter's motives don't have to be assumed or insulted. Granted, other people's feelings are a potential issue, but the offer is being taken at face value and basically accepted. And when it comes to the wife, a boundary is being drawn between what you see as her right to expect, and what is not. If your relationship is such that you cannot draw any such boundaries, then my succinct advice is that you're heading for divorce and are better off realizing it now rather than later. If you can draw some boundaries, it is pretty obvious to have ones saying that it is OK for you to care about your kids. She might not like it, but she doesn't have the right to tell you not to. From my experience I'd say that this kind of approach should avoid major fights with unless someone is really looking for a fight. Of course then nothing will help. What you do then is up to you. My gut response is to identify the person who is being unreasonable, get pissed off with them, and deal with that. (In extreme cases, by cutting said person out of my life. It hurts, a lot, but less than letting chunks keep on being torn out of me.) Cheers, Ben To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link\|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20\|Nebraska Supreme Court]
Post #160,934 by dmarker 6/21/04 10:54:37 PM Reply	Am sure that despite what we write, most do whats best ... Had a situation once that kind of went along the lines you just wrote about. 1st wife's mother was getting old & her mind was wandering. My ex bro-in-law lived 1,500 miles away & wasn't excesively interested in his mother's problems. My ex was in another country. I decided to regularly visit the old dear just to give her a familiar face. I had begun going out with lady who I married shortly thereafter & one day asked her (lady friend) if she would join me visiting ex's aging mother. She was shocked & said "no way". I tried to point out that this was just an old lady who needed some support & that she was very much in need of some personal attention - I felt she could well just fade away & die if ignored (this was no idle comment). She had no one else available or willing to visit her. I had also asked ex ma-i-l if she would like to meet my new friend but she kind of indicated she was not interested (but I knew her pretty well and how she might actually react). Anyway I decide to force the issue & on a drive near the old lady's house one weekend said I was calling in to say hello & after a long tussle convinced future wife to call in with me. Well, within 2 months the two were like aunty & niece. Ex ma-i-l spoke highly of my new wife-to-be & she in turn was even willing to visit ex ma-i-l by herself. Many years later she did the same with my own mother who she had previously had a few run-ins with. When we were living in HK, I couldn't get down as often as she could so she wrote every 2 weeks & visted on every trip back to Australia. By the time my mother died in 2002, it was my current wife that was about the only person she recognised any more despite getting regular visits from my brother, sister & their kids. My current wife knows I would do same for her mother. Her father is aging & not going to live for too many more years. There are times I've wanted to strangle both her parents, but as with any crisis they all come & go. At heart they always have their daughter's interests at heart even if they like so many old parents, can act out a 'wicked witch' role in showing it. So in the case of ma-i-l I took a calculated gamble that things would turn out as they did. Sometimes (but not always) the risk is worth forcing the issue. Cheers Doug _________________________________________________________ "Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!". -- Leonardo Da Vinci
Post #161,148 by Ashton 6/22/04 11:55:59 PM Reply	Indeed We nonaligned folk periodically find it maddening when the aligned trot out their, Tis more Blessed to Give than to Receive.. as if their particular sect had a Corner on the market of putting-into-wprds What You Just Learn. (Had best learn, if you don't want to die as a Billy or a Trump) [Present company excepted; nobody does That here - need I say?] The 'Blessing' is in the achievement? discovery? of a level of consciousness unavailable to the self-obsessed. By any-other-name as will smell as sweet. The Universe RUNS on this energy.. D'Oh. :-0 Over the years I've known several women {then in their ~30s) whose avocation and sometimes livelihood was ~ taking care of the abandoned aged. And it was no "sacrifice". It's so corny/ineffective? when people try to 'explain' to the disinterested about such matters, in the 'West' - but then, they are understandably just trying to prod someone who's never Noticed.. quite a lot. I've always felt it was a Big mistake when the priests got together to committee-write their manuals.. and codified so much that just can't be parsed by logic - a lot of metaphysical mischief has resulted IMhO. But there are signs of the sloughing-off of some of this mischief. {One learns never to ask 'Why'}. But, as in your lovely story - sometimes the 'bonus' is both clear and palpable. I suspect that only experience works in such matters. (I didn't get a chance to meet one such old lady..) who had lived a remarkable life, from her time as Earl Warren's personal secretary, when he was a D.A. in CA.. and onwards to USSC. Her early experience as one of a gaggle of (now many 'famous') early women pilots (!) was fascinating; there were a few pix of her and of them. Obv she was a good conversationalist on a variety of topics, esp, from time spent in East + artifacts, etc. Would like to have heard some of that. I learned of this from the person who helped her, towards the end.. so it's 2nd hand. I did go along in the plane when it was time to sprinkle her ashes out over the landscape. Methinks she would have approved.. (and chortled over my 'cockpit cleanup' with the hand-vac, after we landed) Yup, there are some Fun "old people" around :D Ashton
Post #160,817 by drewk 6/21/04 1:47:59 PM Reply	It is "Father's Day", not "Husband's Day" === Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
Post #160,830 by boxley 6/21/04 3:09:27 PM Reply	have lunch with one dinner with other or goto a strip joint with yer buds. thanx, bill Anchorage AK: House for sale 3 bed 1 bath 1440 sq feet huge lot near Cheney Lake 175K FSBO 813.273.3518 I wondered what Darwinian moment had to effect itself before we devolved from children flying paper flags in the sky to half formed creatures thundering in a wall of horns down the road to Roncevaux. James Lee Burke questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #160,842 by bepatient 6/21/04 4:19:17 PM Reply	I tell the daughter to include the sibling... ...or its a no go. Daughter cannot get an exclusive on father's day just because she doesn't like the new stepmom. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #160,855 by dmarker 6/21/04 5:16:02 PM Reply	Accept invitation _________________________________________________________ "Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!". -- Leonardo Da Vinci
Post #160,876 by Another Scott 6/21/04 7:33:10 PM Reply	TLI Too little information. I could dig through the Site Search, but I won't on this occasion. I think I'm terrible at playing politics, so take this with a grain of salt: If you don't see your daughter on many special occasions, then you should accept. If you get the impression that she needs to have the opportunity to talk with you, alone, and wants to do it on a special occasion, then you should accept. If you talk with her regularly and see her regularly and get the impression that there is family politics involved in her invitation that will put you in a bad situation with the rest of your children and step-children (and wife) with little benefit to/with her, then you should either beg off and reschedule, or try to make it a family gathering at a neutral location. In short, I think your choice depends on your relationship with your daughter. I hope you made the right choice! :-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #161,047 by jbrabeck 6/22/04 1:49:41 PM Reply	Here's what happened. I went to dinner with my daughter. And wife got royally pissed. Step daughters didn't care at all, and other daughter was willing to let her sister have time with me. My wife turned it into a huge political issue. Her or me. Won't go into detail now. It's ugly and has been getting ugly for some time. The ball's now in her court. Dinner was a nice event, local steakhouse. btw. daughter turn 18 next month and leaves for college in September. She goes in for brain surgery (not as bad as it sounds) tomorrow. imo, dinner with her was the right decision. Thanks for all the comments. Appreciate them.
Post #161,048 by hnick 6/22/04 1:52:00 PM Reply	Sounds like a good choice. Good luck going forward,though. Sounds like you may need it.
Post #161,050 by Andrew Grygus 6/22/04 1:54:29 PM Reply	Well, to be really crude about it . . . . wives are replaceable, daughters are not. If this caused that much trouble, trouble was coming anyway. Good luck. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #161,051 by boxley 6/22/04 1:56:48 PM Reply	you did right, its sounds like its what YOU wanted and wives either get over it or they dont. Nothing you can do there. thanx, bill Anchorage AK: House for sale 3 bed 1 bath 1440 sq feet huge lot near Cheney Lake 175K FSBO 813.273.3518 I wondered what Darwinian moment had to effect itself before we devolved from children flying paper flags in the sky to half formed creatures thundering in a wall of horns down the road to Roncevaux. James Lee Burke questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #161,059 by ben_tilly 6/22/04 2:24:17 PM Reply	Brain surgery is never a small detail It may be what they think is an easy operation, but it has to be stressful. In your boat I would have insisted on private time with your daughter before that surgery, and let the consequences with your wife be what they may. Father-daughter is a permanent relationship. You should not try to eliminate it because your wife objects. The value of that relationship should be beyond question. In fact if I was in a relationship where I was forced by my wife to make a choice between my kid and my wife, I'd be inclined to choose my kid. Two reasons. The first is that the kid is a permanent relationship and I strongly object to anyone else trying to get rid of those. The second is that whenever ANYONE in my life tries to make me choose between them and someone else, the person forcing the issue loses. That is one game I have no patience with. Cheers, Ben To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link\|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20\|Nebraska Supreme Court]
Post #161,063 by Another Scott 6/22/04 3:06:23 PM Reply	You made the right choice. Fingers crossed on the surgery.
Post #161,089 by jb4 6/22/04 5:27:16 PM Reply	Sounds like you made the right choice. I echo the sentiments about the surgery, but surgery or no, she's your daughter, and no one can (nor should they try) to take that away from you. jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #161,090 by dmarker 6/22/04 5:30:24 PM Reply	The down side of politics Don't be afraid to eat a little 'umble pie' to cool wife down. The issue in her mind isn't your daughter as much as her (politicised) self esteem & importance to you. Just remember that if you do 'play up to wife' to smooth her bent feelings, it is you that is in control & you that is showing the maturity to manage the situation. What ever you do steer the issue away (if possible) from a 'you chose her over me' debate that never ends. 2nd wives do carry a level of insecurity into a marriage and most of it relates to your prior marital period & off-sprung. As irritating as it might be, try to see it from her side (you know how you feel about it), & convey some feeling that you are looking from her side & you can deal with this particular crisis. But make sure you feel good about how it turns out :-) Cheers & good going. _________________________________________________________ "Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!". -- Leonardo Da Vinci
Post #161,095 by jbrabeck 6/22/04 5:39:53 PM Reply	Already playing the game It doesn't help that she was in an abusive first marriage, where he chose his previous kids over her and their kids. Definitely a lot of landmines laying around ready to explode. And I DO see it from her perspective. I do emphasize with her. I can't tell her that, yet, because her next statement would be "then why did you go?".
Post #161,114 by dmarker 6/22/04 7:44:50 PM Reply	This situ like similar others poses the question ... Is the phrase 'a resonable woman' an oxymoron ? :-) Cheers & good luck. Doug PS: Also 10 points for seeking advice, weighing up options & acting. A healthy sign & a good indicator that you can navigate your way thru the minefields. _________________________________________________________ "Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!". -- Leonardo Da Vinci
Post #161,116 by broomberg 6/22/04 7:55:29 PM Reply	You missed something He sought opinions AFTER he acted.
Post #161,121 by dmarker 6/22/04 8:47:27 PM 6/22/04 8:48:50 PM Reply	If so - yes I did miss that But, I thought he originally said he had 'made a decision' but not yet acted on it. Doug _________________________________________________________ "Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!". -- Leonardo Da Vinci Edited by dmarker June 22, 2004, 08:48:50 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #161,123 by jbrabeck 6/22/04 9:07:49 PM Reply	Actually I did ask for opinions prior to making decision I asked some female coworkers and friends. They all said that I should go with my daughter to encourage/build our relationship. I posted here to get the "male" (most of the Iwetheyers are male) opinion. You, the group, validated my decision. As I said, I could see it from her point. And after I got back, it was very obvious that my wife wasn't so much mad as hurt. Yes, Doug, I have sought advice, professional, friends, church, and here. I know my choices and options. Somehow I manage to keep looking on (for) the bright side. I really do appreciate all the comments, both good and bad. I need BOTH to make informed decisions. As usual, I retain the right to make bad decisions just because I want to make a bad decision. :-)
Post #161,150 by ben_tilly 6/22/04 11:59:18 PM Reply	You asked opinions. Did you ask for HER opinion? Nowhere in the list of people you asked is there a sign that you asked your wife's opinion. The act of discussing a decision, even when you know how you'll make it, is often a valuable exercise. Sure, it may be obvious what decision you'll come to. And if the case was presented to her, she may obviously agree with your decision. But talking with her first tells her that you care about her opinion. Not talking with her first says that you don't care about her opinion. Doing things that she can perceive as saying that you don't care about her is never a good thing. Keep her in the loop. Even if you are willing to override anything she says in this particular case. Cheers, Ben To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link\|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20\|Nebraska Supreme Court]
Post #161,153 by dmarker 6/23/04 12:48:55 AM Reply	I thought this whole exercise was in response to her opinion I think Joe spelled it out in two ways. At the start he highlighted his dilema & why it was so, esp in realtion to wife's reaction. In his most recent posts he showed he cared about his wife's opinion & it seems he is doing the delicate dance needed to now smooth out her need for reassurance. I was happy to participate, felt his Father's day dinner choice was good & am sure he will now swing his attention to dealing with his wife's needs. I don't mind a bit of real life challenges floating through the forums. We all have an opportunity to see how others think about things & that in turn polishes our own thinking. Cheers Doug _________________________________________________________ "Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!". -- Leonardo Da Vinci
Post #161,161 by jbrabeck 6/23/04 6:50:46 AM Reply	Yes, I did ask her opinion and as Doug pointed out, her reaction was that it was rude of my daughter to exclude her (wife). And that she would NEVER do that to me, and would NEVER allow her daughters to even ask her out without including me. (of course since they don't drive and she doesn't drive, I usually HAVE to be included)
Post #161,166 by boxley 6/23/04 8:42:52 AM Reply	sticks snout into your business My mother never drove until my father had a stroke at age 40, we both learned to drive at the same time. My wife was afraid to drive and it took a couple of years before I got her behind the wheel. Gently force her to learn as the ability to take keys in hand and go somewhere NOW is a very self confidence building ability. Suggest she learn and ask her who is going to drive you to the docs when you get incapacitated. thanx, bill Anchorage AK: House for sale 3 bed 1 bath 1440 sq feet huge lot near Cheney Lake 175K FSBO 813.273.3518 I wondered what Darwinian moment had to effect itself before we devolved from children flying paper flags in the sky to half formed creatures thundering in a wall of horns down the road to Roncevaux. James Lee Burke questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #161,240 by jbrabeck 6/23/04 2:21:42 PM Reply	She is handicapped. Doesn't have any strength in right leg. Could never move leg from accerator to brake to stop in case of emergency. She was looking forward to learning prior to her injury. Her ex had refused to allow her to drive/take the test, so she never learned. I was starting to teach her when she fell. She was an excellent bus navigator, now she cannot get to the bus stop (1/2 mile away). Oldest daughter has gotten her license and could take mom in an emergency.
Post #161,241 by boxley 6/23/04 2:23:14 PM Reply	put the acellerator and brake on the column but they do get pricey thanx bill Anchorage AK: House for sale 3 bed 1 bath 1440 sq feet huge lot near Cheney Lake 175K FSBO 813.273.3518 I wondered what Darwinian moment had to effect itself before we devolved from children flying paper flags in the sky to half formed creatures thundering in a wall of horns down the road to Roncevaux. James Lee Burke questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #161,242 by broomberg 6/23/04 2:25:38 PM Reply	I have a friend who is a quad Some functionality in the arms, poor motor control in the hands. He drives. He also is a mean ping pong player. Sometimes I am amazed and proud that I beat a quadrapalegic. I'm sweating bullets when we are done.
Post #161,243 by jbrabeck 6/23/04 2:27:46 PM Reply	For the times that she would need to drive -- too expensive. Cheaper to get daughter or friend or even mobility taxi.
Post #161,249 by ben_tilly 6/23/04 3:01:36 PM Reply	Too bad there's no ping-pong table at beeps :-( To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link\|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20\|Nebraska Supreme Court]
Post #161,270 by boxley 6/23/04 5:19:47 PM Reply	why you wanna try to beat the quad? :-) drunks and ping pong dont mix thanx, bill Anchorage AK: House for sale 3 bed 1 bath 1440 sq feet huge lot near Cheney Lake 175K FSBO 813.273.3518 I wondered what Darwinian moment had to effect itself before we devolved from children flying paper flags in the sky to half formed creatures thundering in a wall of horns down the road to Roncevaux. James Lee Burke questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #161,272 by ChrisR 6/23/04 5:23:27 PM Reply	Drunks go with pool tables... ...cause you can use the table and/or poolstick to keep from falling over.
Post #161,273 by ben_tilly 6/23/04 5:23:54 PM Reply	Even drunk I beat most people handily I'm not very good at ping-pong. I've met good, and know that I don't have any hope of being there. But to the general public, I'll pass. Cheers, Ben To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link\|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20\|Nebraska Supreme Court]
Post #161,300 by broomberg 6/23/04 6:46:26 PM Reply	He's Good [link\|http://www.dougheir.com/index.html\|http://www.dougheir.com/index.html] [link\|http://www.dougheir.com/PhotoGallery1/\|http://www.dougheir.com/PhotoGallery1/] I should have included him in my famous people list.
Post #161,302 by boxley 6/23/04 7:05:39 PM Reply	yea he is. Anchorage AK: House for sale 3 bed 1 bath 1440 sq feet huge lot near Cheney Lake 175K FSBO 813.273.3518 I wondered what Darwinian moment had to effect itself before we devolved from children flying paper flags in the sky to half formed creatures thundering in a wall of horns down the road to Roncevaux. James Lee Burke questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #161,316 by ben_tilly 6/23/04 8:28:46 PM Reply	I'm impressed To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link\|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20\|Nebraska Supreme Court]
Post #161,321 by broomberg 6/23/04 9:01:09 PM Reply	You should try to lift his bag of medals My friend Bill lived with him for a while. Hangs out with him a couple of days a week now. I see him occasionally, help with his computers, play with his dog. Bill travels with him to Olympic events, and spends a lot of time at his shore house and the AC casinos. This guy has literally dozens of women going after him. He can't leave his phone on during a date because 4 or 5 will call. For a while I went over his house to feed his dog Zeus. Great Dane. Outweighed me. Stood higher than me. And occasionally we play ping pong. He tapes the paddle to his hand. Stays in 1 position in his wheel chair. And can reach both side of the table with the single hand. Quickly. Can play forehand and backhand just as well. And manages to drop the ball on my side the farthest possible distance from me. I run my ass off. I have a really good spinning serve that sometimes can get by him. Other than that, I cheat. There is a certain point near the net he can't reach. So I try to lightly drop the ball right there.
Post #161,322 by ben_tilly 6/23/04 9:02:44 PM Reply	Think he'd be up for a game Friday night? Say, about 10PM or so? Ben To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link\|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20\|Nebraska Supreme Court]
Post #161,323 by broomberg 6/23/04 9:04:03 PM Reply	No He'll be on a date, or on the way to the casino with Bill.
Post #161,325 by broomberg 6/23/04 9:08:40 PM 6/23/04 11:58:35 PM Reply	Begone
Post #161,332 by ben_tilly 6/23/04 9:30:24 PM 6/24/04 12:00:05 AM Reply	Gracias To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link\|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20\|Nebraska Supreme Court] Edited by ben_tilly June 24, 2004, 12:00:05 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #161,342 by broomberg 6/23/04 10:11:34 PM Reply	Hey admin!!! Please, important. Wipe out the above post.
Post #161,357 by admin 6/24/04 12:01:12 AM Reply	Bleh. Y'all owe me for this one. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #161,359 by broomberg 6/24/04 12:04:52 AM Reply	Agreed
Post #161,369 by Ashton 6/24/04 1:12:22 AM Reply	{cackle}_____{cackle}___Ah... IWE____________{glorp}
Post #161,368 by ben_tilly 6/24/04 1:11:12 AM Reply	Indeed I do One bottomless beer coming up at beeps ifn you want it. Thanks, Ben To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link\|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20\|Nebraska Supreme Court]
Post #161,393 by broomberg 6/24/04 8:03:35 AM Reply	No, that's what he does to you
Post #161,402 by folkert 6/24/04 9:08:48 AM Reply	With prodding from someone else... He almost gave up early. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Heard near the SCOG employee entry/exit way: `Security: We got another Mass Exodus Doorway Jam.`
Post #161,118 by bepatient 6/22/04 8:14:28 PM Reply	Because she would in your place. Her daughter on mothers day. Same situation. She would have gone most likely. Not a bad solution you came up with (as long as the other daughter was really ok with it..which it sounds like she was). If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]

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