Bahgdad in Iraq was the central point (politically) between the two (Arab & Persian).

Shia were formed because they were the followers of the 4th Caliph 'Imam Ali' (Mohomad's son-in-law & at same time his cousin). Hassan was Ali's oldest son, who under threat abdicated Caliphate seccession in favour of the 5th Caliph (Ummayad clan) after Ali was murdered. Ali's second son Hussayn was also murdered by the 'Sunni' - the followers of the 'loosely' elected 5th Imam 1st of the Ummayad clan. With both Ali and Hussayn having been murdered, they became 'saints' to the Shia (party of Ali). Shia regard Ali as the 1st Caliph and the true heir to Mohomad. There is a debate that still gets argued over today as to if Mohomad always intended Ali to take over directly from him. That of course didn't happen. Three other Caliphs were 'elected' before Ali got his go & Caliphs 2,3 & 4 (Ali) were all murdered as was Ali's 2nd son.

The split is not unlike that in the Mormon religion founded by the 'prophet' Joseph Smith. When Smith was lynched, the followers of Brigham Young (the equiv of the Ummayads) split (physically & figuratively) with the followers of Joseph Smith's son and trekked to Utah from Missouri.

The Mormons became two factions: Brigham Young's "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints" and the Smith son followers "Reorganised Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints". The latter stayed in the town they founded - Independance Missouri, & fought a court battle to retain the property etc: of The original church but Brigham Young's group became the Mormon powerhouse we all think of today as the 'Mormons'.

The split between the Sunni and Shia was very much (but not totally) a Persian vs Arab split with the Shia being predominantly of Persian origin. The Ummayads dominated the caliphate for many years before being overthrown by the Abbasaid dynasty (Interestingly, it was one of the survivors of the Ummayads who fled to Spain & founded the Andalusian empire there).

Both the Ummayads & Abbasaids were harsh to the Shia. The Sunnis believed in an 'administrative' and Arab dominated Islam where the Caliphs were administrators as well as heads of the religion whereas the Shia believed in a religious (spiritual) leadership with less vaue on who administered (Sunnis followed power leaders, Shia followed the descendants of Mohomad through Ali).

The Sunni/Shia split is actually very complex but in simple terms, it is as above.

Doug Marker

#2 correct sp of word Caliphate in title

#3 corrected ref to Hussayn being Ali's 1st son (he was his 2nd)

Persian empire ended in 680 when Arab Islam invaded.

Ottoman empire was founded in early 1300s and grew through that century. Constantinople fell in 1453. That lead Ottoman expansion into Iraq & today's Iran.

Sunni & Shia sects were well in existance by end 600s (Ali's 2nd son Hussayn's martyrdom at Karbala (now in Iraq)).

There is a 600 year gap in what we are talking about. Also this has little to do with the inital posts re a Persian Caliphate (there *never* was a Persian Caliphate - the cities of the Caliphates from 700ad to 1500ad were first Damascus, then the newly founded city of Baghdad then Cairo until 1517ad, but even under the Ottomans it remained officially in Cairo) ?

Cheers Doug

#2 found a very good link (thanks for giving me the incentive) this is a very good summary of the overall Caliphate & points out that the Ottoman leader Selim I assumed the mantle of Caliph in 1517 after defeating the remanants of the Abbasaids in Egypt that year. The Ottomans held the Caliphate until 1924 so that provides for a 400 year Caliphate after a 800+ year Arab Caliphate (certainly *not* a 1000 year Ottoman tenure). The Selim I link = [link|http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0809901.html|http://www.infopleas...ory/A0809901.html] (I am guessing you have inadvertantly mixed the Arab 800 year tenure with the later 400 year Ottoman tenure - easy enough mistake - this whole issue is extraordinarily complex - I won't even go into the line of 12 Imams of the Shia & the significance ot 'the 12th Imam' but it is rather fascinating).

#3 qualified founding of the Ottoman empire.

#4 corrected duration of Ottoman Caliphate (said 500 years but it was only 400) also clarified a few other typos & points.

#5 reversed the order of Baghdad & Damascus.



Below are a few quick links (can get more detailed stuff on Shia & Sunni)

[link|http://www.admin.northpark.edu/dkoeller/Classes/WHII/3MuslimEmpires.N.html|http://www.admin.nor...limEmpires.N.html] 3 empires
Explains Ottoman Empire well - 500 years after Sunni & Shia branches of Islam founded


[link|http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0860176.html|http://www.infopleas...ory/A0860176.html]
Explains Ottoman empire as 1400s


[link|http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/OTTOMAN/OTTOMAN1.HTM|http://www.wsu.edu:8...OMAN/OTTOMAN1.HTM]
Suleyman the magnificent (pinnacle of Ottoman achievements)


[link|http://campus.northpark.edu/history/WebChron/MiddleEast/Ottoman.html|http://campus.northp...East/Ottoman.html]
Another history - Ottomans - Constantinole

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Persia in 7th century becomes Islamic after being crushed by the Arabs
[link|http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761564512/Persia.html|http://encarta.msn.c...64512/Persia.html] (at bottom)


[link|http://gbgm-umc.org/country_profiles/country_history.cfm?Id=202|http://gbgm-umc.org/...istory.cfm?Id=202]
Mentions collapse of the Persian empire (at bottom)


[link|http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/islmoil1.html|http://www.cyberista...mic/islmoil1.html]
Arabs and oil in the 7th century (good story)