What do gun laws have to do with it?

Post #157,953 by broomberg 6/1/04 6:48:10 AM Reply	What do gun laws have to do with it? Everyone had a gun in this situation!
Post #157,967 by boxley 6/1/04 11:06:46 AM Reply	my point exactly, gun laws only punish the law abiding Time for Lord Stanley to get a Tan questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #157,987 by jake123 6/1/04 1:28:03 PM Reply	I don't quite see how that follows. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #157,990 by boxley 6/1/04 1:37:53 PM Reply	it shows that gun laws dont work the only people abiding by them are the honest citizenry who then can become prey for fellows like these who get guns and use them anyway. thanx, bill Time for Lord Stanley to get a Tan questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #157,995 by jake123 6/1/04 1:48:44 PM Reply	You're making a mistake you're equating our large urban centres with the rest of the country. Further, the real problem we have with gun control in Toronto etc is that the gun runners aren't being punished enough. Personally, I think if you're caught selling firearms to people who don't have the proper papers (an FAC and/or handgun certificate), you should get tossed in the clink for a year or two at least, and perhaps up to ten to fifteen depending on just how hardcore your merchandising is. It's a bit of a problem; an effective gun control regime for Toronto is not like one for Fort McMurray. That said, the big problem we've been having lately is because a lot of handguns are coming over the border from Syracuse, Buffalo, Detroit, etc. They do manage to interdict a lot of them at the border, but it's hard to get all of them. This was not a major problem even in places like Toronto ten years ago. We need to nip it now before it gets even more out of control. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #157,998 by boxley 6/1/04 2:03:03 PM Reply	thank you for making my point Time for Lord Stanley to get a Tan questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #157,999 by jake123 6/1/04 2:04:22 PM Reply	How does it not punish them? When they do get gun runners, they tend to go to jail for a long time. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #158,003 by boxley 6/1/04 2:14:08 PM Reply	they are still there people who are criminals are armed with weapons that the peaceful population has no access to. This means that a crime may be commited with impunity as the police can investigate something that has already happened. What would have happened here if the pizza giuy was unarmed? [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=157994\|http://z.iwethey.org...?contentid=157994] thanx, bill Time for Lord Stanley to get a Tan questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #158,145 by lister 6/2/04 3:15:49 PM Reply	Yes they do work "It's tempting to respond with the cold, hard statistics. (In 2002, there were 149 gun homicides in Canada; south of the border, there were 11,546. Even factoring in the population difference, that's about eight times higher.)" [link\|http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/world/article.jsp?content=20040510_80061_80061\|http://www.macleans....40510_80061_80061] And that's just homicides. I'm sure you'll see a similiar trend with gun related injuries, arrests, etc. Yeah there are those cases where having a gun has prevented something terrible from happening but at the same time having a gun allows a great many terrible things to happen even when the public has firearm access. Keeping in mind that much like parts of the US, certain parts of Canada make up a larger share of that 149 total. I'm sure cities like Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal lead the way for gun related problems. That's just natural. Big cities with lots of people there from different backgrounds. Personally I think if you're caught with an illegal gun you should get an automatic five year jail term. That would be on top of any other crime you're convicted of. Personally I like the fact that the public here doesn't pack heat. lister
Post #158,151 by boxley 6/2/04 3:32:06 PM Reply	Well you cannot own guns in Chicago and NYC and yer chances of getting killed by one is pretty high there so gun laws dont work. Since they dont I would prefer the public to be armed, a concealed carry class is more than a permit, it outlines the legalities and most people who take one tend to put a few rounds out there in practice. Since the criminals know people can legally carry guns it tends to make them more cautious and me safer. thanx, bill Time for Lord Stanley to get a Tan questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #158,157 by lister 6/2/04 3:47:42 PM Reply	Yep the criminals are running roughshod over here Sticking up and killing all us non gun-toting people. Yep. Piles of bodies everywhere... Same problem over there in Limeyland too. roll eyes > Well you cannot own guns in Chicago and NYC How is that possible if the second ammendment (with various law provisions) says you can? lister
Post #158,173 by boxley 6/2/04 5:50:48 PM Reply	here is a pile of them [link\|http://www.right-thoughts.us/comments.php?id=P171_0_1_0_C\|http://www.right-tho...p?id=P171_0_1_0_C] Police investigating the shooting of four teenagers at a party in Birmingham say more than 30 shots were fired and a sub-machine gun was used. Detectives told a news conference that the girls, two of whom died, were not members of a gang and described their deaths as a "senseless loss of life". make note they are not speaking about Alabama, there someone would return fire. thanx, bill Time for Lord Stanley to get a Tan questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #158,162 by Ashton 6/2/04 4:17:24 PM Reply	Thinking out of the Box, again? Your Honor, I submit this pukka example of pure nascent digitallogicthink and ask that the case be dismissed, on the face of it: Well you cannot own guns in Chicago and NYC and yer chances of getting killed by one is pretty high there so gun laws dont work. if then except while meanwhile recurse [Da Capo], ..to the tune of Mairzy Doats in F^#, sung by The Chipmunks Thank you, Your Honor.. Lunch? Stars..? or The French Laundry (Wine Country; we can go in the Maybach)
Post #158,261 by jb4 6/3/04 12:18:53 PM Reply	I dunno where you're getting your "information" (The RNC, perhaps? Or the Disinformation Wing of the NRA?) but you most assuredly can own guns in Chicago. All you need is a chit, called an Illinois Firearms Owners ID card, and your good to go. Now, there are restrictions: You can't own any fully automatic weapon, and certain easily modified semi-automatic weapons are banned (IIRC). but to say you can't own a gun in Chicago is pure bullshit; and you, aof all people, should know better! Making a point with facts is a greater good that piling on more bullshit jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #158,272 by boxley 6/3/04 2:09:49 PM Reply	my apologies, I was misinformed by lincoln earlier post Time for Lord Stanley to get a Tan questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #158,274 by jb4 6/3/04 2:13:48 PM Reply	Accepted.... Now, let's have FUN! jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #158,178 by danreck 6/2/04 5:58:17 PM Reply	Box, saw an interesting movie a few nights ago called "Bowling for Columbine". MM makes the point that the gun laws are roughly the same in Canada and the US (and Japan for that matter). Moore doesn't really ever resolve the issue "why there are so many more" gun related deaths in the US. It is something in our culture that transcends the second ammendment (laws/regulations) however. If you haven't seen it yet, check out the movie. I'd be interested what you think. I woke up in between a memory and a dream, Danno
Post #158,200 by boxley 6/2/04 9:01:02 PM Reply	dont need to watch the movie, I followed the original act No disagreement that we are a violent nation, my beleif is that we are so because we are a tropical country and so should be measured against scicily, corsica, North Africa South Africa rather than the euros and Canada. Canada is totally different because they were settled by a nation of ass kissers who wanted to stay with the accepted order, and the french who keep them awake and annoyed. Our muder rates compared to South Africa are not that bad. And before the snowfolks chime in, whats the average july temp in Omaha vs Bonn or London? thanx, bill Time for Lord Stanley to get a Tan questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #158,263 by jb4 6/3/04 12:21:50 PM Reply	While we're averaging: How 'bout comparing Chicago, or Boston, or Boise, or Denver, or Portland (either one), or Kansas City for that matter, against said Bonn or London? jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT

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