At the risk of getting flamed

Post #155,182 by Nightowl 5/14/04 4:24:23 PM Reply	At the risk of getting flamed I've decided to make this post. I wasn't sure where to put it, but I decided here was better, because putting it in any particular forum will only bias it towards that topic. That said, here are my thoughts. I've noticed lately that recent events in Iraq and the U.S. among other places, have really served to damage and divide people in Iwethey. I realize that we all have our own reactions to the abuse in the prisons and the beheading, etc. etc, but unfortunately, most of what I see is people who are supposed to be good friends, completely at odds over it all. And that's really sad. Don't you all realize, that's what the terrorists want? They WANT us to divide and fight amongst ourselves. They WANT us to doubt our friends and beliefs, and they want us to create conflict and chaos... that supports their cause. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I have one suggestion. Before you make another inflammatory or attacking post about one of these topics, or anything else out there currently, THINK about how it might impact your friends at Iwethey. Think about how it might be viewed, and if you see that it will only cause more conflict, don't write it. I would just hate to see a political/International mess like this tear you all apart. Nightowl >8# "AHHHHH! Relatives coming out of the woodwork!!!!!!"
Post #155,189 by broomberg 5/14/04 5:10:28 PM Reply	Mommy mommy They are doing what the terrorists want!!! They are having real discussions and exposing raw core viewpoints!! Can't have that, must march in lockstep. No dissention allowed. No arguments. If someone states we should nuke everyone who exposes a picture of our torturing troops, can't argue. Must accept the barbaric insanity for the good of our good friends. Are you really this stupid?
Post #155,190 by Nightowl 5/14/04 5:11:50 PM Reply	I see a clear difference between real discussions that are productive and go somewhere towards a resolution, and outright hate comments that destroy relationships. Nightowl >8# "AHHHHH! Relatives coming out of the woodwork!!!!!!"
Post #155,196 by dmarker 5/14/04 5:28:52 PM Reply	Interesting. I was close to posting praise for the tone of the debate compared to how bad we got during the Iraq invasion. That was just plain ugly. I have felt that everyone was expressing views & much more accepting of divergence that I have seen in a long time. Minnd you I haven't seen Marlowe posting any poisonous propaganda stuff this time round & I think that has helped, Funny how differently we can see things. Doug M
Post #155,202 by inthane-chan 5/14/04 5:44:46 PM Reply	The way I see it... I consider everybody* here to be good friends. Friends can disagree, flame the holy bejevus out of each other, then shake hands and have a good BBQ together (CF annual BeepBash on the 4th of July weekend on the east coast - when I get a house, I'd like to do something similar for us Left coasters), down some brewskis, etc. Hell, some of us here have raised flaming to an art form. I don't think he tries as hard as he used to, but CRC pretty much is the champ as far as it goes, with Peter+Admin in a tie for second - Peter for outright nastyness, admin for creativity. Maybe I'm warped + twisted, but I appreciate a well-written flame over a simple "Fuck you." Now, I will admit that things have gotten a little heated from time to time, and the events of 9/11/01 have strained things, along with the current administrations actions. Yes, there have been some bloodied noses. Yes, we've lost a few people. Yes, if any of those "lost" to the group called me up and asked to get together, I'd say yup in a heartbeat. This group is something special, something I haven't found anywhere else on the internet, and I'd be a damn fool to let something like a disagreement get in the way of the friendships I've made here. *Except Marlowe for the reason that he has made an effort to set himself apart from the rest of us here by completely disregarding any efforts at civility made towards him. Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain. You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today. And then one day you find ten years have got behind you. No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
Post #155,204 by admin 5/14/04 5:47:57 PM Reply	Woo... I'm the "creative flamer". Sounds like someone you'd see at a Rocky Horror Picture Show viewing... ;-) Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #155,206 by inthane-chan 5/14/04 5:52:30 PM Reply	Yup. The only thing lacking that keeps you from becoming a true world-class flamer is a lack of focus - you tend to lose sight of the WHY you're flaming somebody in favor of just coming up with the most creative flame you can. At least, that's what I see. Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain. You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today. And then one day you find ten years have got behind you. No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
Post #155,209 by Another Scott 5/14/04 6:07:33 PM Reply	He loses focus because "He's Got LPRD Davis Eyes." HTH!
Post #155,211 by admin 5/14/04 6:34:24 PM Reply	Hmmm... Probably just lack of sleep... ;-) I wasn't aware that I flamed people often enough to have a track record and modus operandi... :-P Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #155,213 by inthane-chan 5/14/04 6:39:28 PM Reply	You don't do it very often. It's just that when you do, I see the same pattern over 'n over again. :) Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain. You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today. And then one day you find ten years have got behind you. No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
Post #155,217 by Ashton 5/14/04 6:48:23 PM Reply	He doesn't 'flame' He embeds the tiny lightly toasted crunchy-frog within the creamy filling; then lovingly enrobes with rich dark chocolate, atop the gold-lame paper cup.
Post #155,218 by admin 5/14/04 6:49:21 PM Reply	Examples? Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #155,220 by inthane-chan 5/14/04 7:08:27 PM Reply	Great, now I have to find one. :) Placeholder for when I get around to it. Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain. You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today. And then one day you find ten years have got behind you. No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
Post #155,562 by inthane-chan 5/17/04 5:23:54 PM Reply	Re: Great, now I have to find one. :) [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=145600\|http://z.iwethey.org...?contentid=145600] [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=133710\|http://z.iwethey.org...?contentid=133710] [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=126097\|http://z.iwethey.org...?contentid=126097] I finally got bored, and did a search of the Flame Forum for anything posted by Scott. Grabbed a few choice ones... Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain. You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today. And then one day you find ten years have got behind you. No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
Post #155,576 by admin 5/17/04 5:45:18 PM Reply	Ah, I see now... ... why you think I lose focus. Those were all "ObFlame" types of things because they were in the Flame Quarantine. Not to be confused with a lack of focus, but rather a dotting of 'i's and crossing of 't's. ;-) Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #155,583 by folkert 5/17/04 5:57:57 PM Reply	Holy Bovine-Scat. Dern it Boiha! Iffn that's what you are calling losing focus... Count me in on that too. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Give a man a match, he'll be warm for a minute. Set him on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life!
Post #155,244 by Silverlock 5/14/04 10:03:41 PM Reply	Oh thank you so very much. Now I'll have to spend the next few days somehow driving this image out of my head of you in bustier, garters and hose singing 'Let's Do the time Warp Again'. ----------------------------------------- It is much harder to be a liberal than a conservative. Why? Because it is easier to give someone the finger than it is to give them a helping hand. Mike Royko
Post #155,479 by lincoln 5/17/04 2:30:01 PM Reply	Wrong picture The people in tuxedos, party hats and sunglasses sang "Time Warp". Dr. Frank N. Furter (played by Tim Curry) wore the bustier, garters and black fishnet stockings and sang "Sweet Transvestite". lincoln "Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times [link\|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net\|contact me]
Post #155,489 by Silverlock 5/17/04 2:53:58 PM Reply	IFS Without any worry at all, my day proceeds in blissfull ignorance of who wore the stockings in the RHPS. And till you made this reply, I had succesfully driven the image away. You bastard. ----------------------------------------- It is much harder to be a liberal than a conservative. Why? Because it is easier to give someone the finger than it is to give them a helping hand. Mike Royko
Post #155,191 by Ashton 5/14/04 5:21:39 PM Reply	i'Twould be ironic indeed to flame you for an anti-flammatory post! (But then zIWE thrive on B-12, Iron-y and prurient parsing) Guess I hadn't noticed such levels of dissension - but inevitably the behaviour of the prison folk is bound to cast a reflection upon our (The US's) daily dosages of heaped dead burned bodies - within our chosen entertainments. That this is apt to lead to overgeneralizations about the degree-of-depravity of the rest of US -?- is surely a worldwide football to kick around. And who can resist so inviting a football, with such a solid-teak Tee, holding it in kicking position. Is it even possible to over-do the scorn for everything which led to this nail in the coffin of PNAC Neoconman fantasies? ..about "smiling Iraqis with bouquets for the Halliburton-Cheney invaders" ..expecting the embracing of US-Capitalism in a trice, 'cause we be so universally Loved ..the settling of the religio-clan-wars of centuries: because the US be so universally Loved. ..etc. Nope, I guess I don't see the massive pile-on you seem to notice. Ashton PS - it's got to get very much Worse before it can get Better. 5+ months of unspeakable spin, mouthed by the scurrilous to the naive: that's what's ahead, no matter what. Self-destruction - at least keeps it in the Family.
Post #155,193 by ben_tilly 5/14/04 5:23:51 PM Reply	My guess... Nightowl doesn't like the thread in Politics about how religion is evil and should be destroyed. I don't like it either, but for completely different reasons. Cheers, Ben To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link\|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20\|Nebraska Supreme Court]
Post #155,199 by Nightowl 5/14/04 5:35:44 PM Reply	Re: My guess... Nightowl doesn't like the thread in Politics about how religion is evil and should be destroyed. I don't like it either, but for completely different reasons. Partly right, Ben. But there's so much more, and maybe people just don't see it like I am. The torture thread, for example. Everyone had to argue who started torture, who taught it to whom, it got downright volatile, to me, anyway. Who cares where it came from, it happened, and it happened at the hands of US soldiers, why does that reflect on any other country? The thread about Rumsfeld and the panel and all, it turned into so much more than a political debate, it almost sounded "personal" between members of the IWT community. I guess there's nothing wrong with that, but it seemed so sad to me that it came to that. Yes, the religion thread, and even the Iraq thread of genocide. Killing everyone doesn't solve anything. That bothers me a lot, that anyone here would even begin to THINK about advocating that kind of massacre. I just wouldn't have seen it in anyone's hearts here, not even the WORST ones. All I know is, it's gotten real gloomy in here, real dark, real sad, real volatile, and honestly, downright depressing. Yes, I know I can refrain from reading it, but that's not my point. I believe I've made my point, or at least I hope so. And for Broomberg who seems to think I wanted everyone to agree, well I never said that, and I certainly never thought that. I just thought we could debate things with a little less hate, venom and viciousness. So put words in my mouth if you want, but I didn't say we should all be the same, all think the same or all do the same. What a boring place IWT would be if we were. Nightowl >8# "AHHHHH! Relatives coming out of the woodwork!!!!!!"
Post #155,248 by Silverlock 5/14/04 10:13:25 PM Reply	Look to your self All I know is, it's gotten real gloomy in here, real dark, real sad, real volatile, and honestly, downright depressing. If you don't like our stark honesty, you should stay out of the more ... volatile forums. I'll say this once. The people here are frighteningly honest. All that disagree with me, of course, are wrong. Note the difference. Just cause they are wrong doesn't make them dishonest. I recognize that. So should you. (I'll flame you later) ----------------------------------------- It is much harder to be a liberal than a conservative. Why? Because it is easier to give someone the finger than it is to give them a helping hand. Mike Royko
Post #155,262 by Nightowl 5/14/04 11:12:16 PM Reply	Never once did I say they were dishonest. More trying to put words in my mouth that weren't there and weren't said. Nightowl >8# "AHHHHH! Relatives coming out of the woodwork!!!!!!"
Post #155,274 by Silverlock 5/15/04 12:00:49 AM Reply	I've never put a word in your mouth. Ever. I'll thank you not to spread that lie. I also never said you thought we were dishonest. Try reading it again. If you need help, I can point you to the dictionary references for sarcasm and such. ----------------------------------------- It is much harder to be a liberal than a conservative. Why? Because it is easier to give someone the finger than it is to give them a helping hand. Mike Royko
Post #155,275 by Nightowl 5/15/04 12:03:58 AM Reply	I'll clarify then. Silverlock wrote:>>Just cause they are wrong doesn't make them dishonest. I recognize that. So should you.<< This to me, implied that you thought I didn't recognize that they were honest. I didn't even say that they were wrong, so if you didn't mean it that way, no problem. Nightowl >8# "AHHHHH! Relatives coming out of the woodwork!!!!!!"
Post #155,276 by Silverlock 5/15/04 12:20:05 AM Reply	Hmm.. I look at it from that point of view and suddenly, understanding smacks my forehead. My deepest apologies. accepted? (I'll still rip you when I feel you deserve it)* *Wich will, most likely, be often. ----------------------------------------- It is much harder to be a liberal than a conservative. Why? Because it is easier to give someone the finger than it is to give them a helping hand. Mike Royko
Post #155,277 by Nightowl 5/15/04 12:22:34 AM Reply	Accepted. :) And I'll do my best not to deserve it. :) Nightowl >8# "AHHHHH! Relatives coming out of the woodwork!!!!!!"
Post #155,404 by n3jja 5/16/04 6:28:03 PM Reply	That is why... ... I have that forum (and a few others) Marked Read until 2064.
Post #155,419 by drewk 5/16/04 9:22:57 PM Reply	I just go month to month, but same idea === Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
Post #155,195 by Nightowl 5/14/04 5:26:07 PM Reply	Well, maybe it seems worse to me Than to everyone else. I've seen people blaming each other's countries for this mess, I've seen people trashing religion left and right and blaming it for this mess. I've seen people claiming that they never really knew the truth about so and so in here, all over this twisted mess in Iraq and etc. Maybe you all are joking around with one another, but it doesn't have that feel, really. It has an incendiary feel, a destructive feel... But for all your sakes, Ashton, I truly hope you're right, and it isn't as bad as it seems to be. Guess I just miss the usual banter and joking and picking on one another in a more light-hearted way. Nightowl >8# "AHHHHH! Relatives coming out of the woodwork!!!!!!"
Post #155,203 by Ashton 5/14/04 5:44:57 PM Reply	'Religion' is "crazy Aunt Martha in the corner" - about which (polite folk) simply may not speak. She is to remain invisible, for all polite conversation in the house. (As, in Murican culture, one does not fart; one (used to) expels gas .. and the thousands of other euphemisms, which are our chosen form of noncommunication of Basic Issues. Yes, it is always jarring to the Faithful - to have anyone bring up the record of the effects of Believers upon Other-believers: especially effects of their regular raids on Other-Believers, through the Ages. In gawd's Name cha cha cha - Always. But that connection Can Be Explored at zIWE or: we may as well be a Bridge Club. And if not Now? Then: When? would there be a more up-to-date Example of the utterly predictable phenomena of 'Believers' and their lethally-sanctimonious yammerings? Onward Xian Sojers ---> of all Screeds n'Deeds; Kill a Commie for Christ Ashton, who demurs on that entire sandbox of turpitude
Post #155,200 by jb4 5/14/04 5:36:57 PM Reply	You're too new here... ...to have experienced the Florida Election Fiasco\ufffd. That was a dust-up, that was! This is simply a good, ol' fashion spleen letting. Relax, Nightey. For IWETHEY standards, these debates have been positively civil. As to this posit: Don't you all realize, that's what the terrorists want? They WANT us to divide and fight amongst ourselves. They WANT us to doubt our friends and beliefs, and they want us to create conflict and chaos... that supports their cause. That's true, but what they (and apparently, you) don't get is that, by venting, by examining all aspects of the issue at hand (including those that are incendiary), by raising one's voice, a catharsis occurs, and healing begins. Methinks that the IWETHEY community is stronger than you give it credit for. mmoffitt's railings against religion, or Arkadiy's exhortations to turn the desert into glass, are hardly the stuff that would rend this group assunder. (Hell, if we can survive CRC's profane blastings, or Ross's recent sexist expousals, we can survive anything ;-) This is why we're here in the first place, Brenda. jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #155,201 by Nightowl 5/14/04 5:39:26 PM Reply	Thanks JB. At least that gives me some hope. :) Nightowl >8# "AHHHHH! Relatives coming out of the woodwork!!!!!!"
Post #155,254 by Silverlock 5/14/04 10:39:56 PM Reply	Flame on. Don't worry your empty lttle head. You don't think it possible you haven't been around us long enough to understand the feeling of commnality we have? Fuck you and your little Pollyanish concerns. Those with truly loathsome thoughts find they have no backup (think Marlowe). Those who are angry can vent and spleen to their hearts content, you Nancy Drewish shrew. We here tend to value honestly held and expressed opinions, however fucking wrong they may be; i.e. they don't agree with mine. Let me spell it out, I think you are a scared little soul trying to not be scared so you spend your time online instead of (note, I did not say in addition to) dealing with the real world. (Maybe this next bit should go in flame off, screw it. You do seem to be getting better. But over all, you piss me off. It just seems to be less intense lately.) ----------------------------------------- It is much harder to be a liberal than a conservative. Why? Because it is easier to give someone the finger than it is to give them a helping hand. Mike Royko
Post #155,263 by Nightowl 5/14/04 11:13:54 PM Reply	Re: Flame on. Let me spell it out, I think you are a scared little soul trying to not be scared so you spend your time online instead of (note, I did not say in addition to) dealing with the real world. I think you are off here. I have NOT been online a lot lately, in case you haven't noticed. I've been LESS online lately, more than ever. Nightowl >8# "AHHHHH! Relatives coming out of the woodwork!!!!!!"
Post #155,266 by Silverlock 5/14/04 11:28:11 PM Reply	I believe I've struck a nerve. ----------------------------------------- It is much harder to be a liberal than a conservative. Why? Because it is easier to give someone the finger than it is to give them a helping hand. Mike Royko
Post #155,268 by Nightowl 5/14/04 11:31:45 PM Reply	Not at all Just correcting your perception, which is that I've been spending time online to avoid real life. That can't be farther from the truth these days. :) Nightowl >8# "AHHHHH! Relatives coming out of the woodwork!!!!!!"
Post #155,272 by Another Scott 5/14/04 11:40:39 PM Reply	I think you're overreacting in this case. There have been several very heated arguments on IWeThey, and its predecessors, a couple (several years ago) ended very very badly. :-< But the discussions recently haven't been like that. I appreciate your speaking up before a discussion spirals out of control; it's very good of you. But I think in this case you misunderstood the discussion. In spite of my comments above, don't be afraid to speak up if you think things have gone too far. I wish I had done so. My $0.02. I may be wrong. Cheers, Scott.
Post #155,273 by Nightowl 5/14/04 11:43:14 PM Reply	you could be right But I appreciate you seeing that I wasn't sure, so I spoke up. Hey, it's simple, I made an observation, and IWT members can deal with that observation any way they please. All I did was make it. :) Thanks, Scott. Nightowl >8# "AHHHHH! Relatives coming out of the woodwork!!!!!!"
Post #155,286 by dmarker 5/15/04 3:00:06 AM Reply	One kind suggestion ... (said in all good humor :-) Don't begin any post with a remark like "I may get flammed for this' - that makes you out to be a clairvoyant :-) Cheers Doug
Post #155,312 by Nightowl 5/15/04 12:44:03 PM Reply	Re: One kind suggestion ... (said in all good humor :-) Don't begin any post with a remark like "I may get flammed for this' - that makes you out to be a clairvoyant :-) Sometimes I am, hehehe. But thanks, your suggestion is noted. :) Nightowl >8# "AHHHHH! Relatives coming out of the woodwork!!!!!!"
Post #155,291 by pwhysall 5/15/04 4:59:20 AM Reply	Oh, for FUCK's sake. (new thread) Created as new thread #155290 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=155290\|Oh, for FUCK's sake.] Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #156,292 by orion 5/21/04 11:32:58 PM Reply	Read my Yahoo group for feedback I shall not post my response here. *"What's the use of saving life when you see what you do with it?" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #156,306 by pwhysall 5/22/04 1:18:24 AM Reply	Well, that was pointless. "Lookit me and my SUPAR SEKRIT Yahoo Group!" Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #156,795 by orion 5/25/04 12:23:17 AM Reply	It does have benefits as it does not have people like you in it. ;) *"What's the use of saving life when you see what you do with it?" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #156,307 by folkert 5/22/04 1:19:41 AM Reply	Shades of: Read me in MY posts here... DAN RECK, DAN RECK where art thou? -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Give a man a match, he'll be warm for a minute. Set him on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life!
Post #156,865 by orion 5/25/04 12:17:31 PM Reply	Ok let me offer you a choice Keep in mind I did not post a link to that group. But let me offer you a choice: A. I can post my responses to Owl here and create more undesired posts and the flame posts that follow that also waste bandwidth. B. I can post my responses to Owl on a Yahoo Group and leave this forum clean of them. Then remind Owl that my response is in that group. You and Peter posted two senseless posts in response to mine. All I did was move the conversation to a different area, away from here. Which I think was the right thing to do. So which choice do you think I should do then? A or B? *"What's the use of saving life when you see what you do with it?" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #156,866 by folkert 5/25/04 12:18:55 PM Reply	'twas merely a statement of Coincedental appearances of Michel Merlin. Nothing more, Nothing less. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Give a man a match, he'll be warm for a minute. Set him on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life!
Post #156,869 by orion 5/25/04 12:22:09 PM Reply	Michel Merlin Is he still alive, or dropped off the Internet? I hadn't seen him post in a while. I came here to post, and the LRPD says: "No, you didn't. You came here for an argument!" *"What's the use of saving life when you see what you do with it?" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #156,898 by Nightowl 5/25/04 2:14:01 PM Reply	Just letting you know, Norman, Even though I don't seem to be in IWT Yahoo very often, I get it in mail so I always know when you reply to me there. :) Just letting you know so you don't worry about me not seeing it. I just have been too busy to respond to it these past couple days, I'll get to it as soon as I can, I promise. Brenda Nightowl >8# "AHHHHH! Relatives coming out of the woodwork!!!!!!"

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