Closer to boht.

Post #153,764 by mmoffitt 5/4/04 5:56:10 PM Reply	Closer to boht. Click here to hear it: [link\|http://www.ex.ac.uk/german/abinitio/pronounce/audio/boot.wav\|http://www.ex.ac.uk/...ce/audio/boot.wav] I loved that movie. bcnu, Mikem
Post #153,769 by admin 5/4/04 6:07:32 PM Reply	That's the consensus around here. Although I have a Canadian, a Jew, and a guy whose mother is German telling me boot. The German guy just stopped by to say that he called his mother, and she set him straight: boat. :-) Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #153,771 by boxley 5/4/04 6:12:10 PM Reply	Canadian, it figures cause he sez oot for out attempting to explain profiling doesn't require one to take a position for or against it any more than attempting to explain gravity requires one to be for or against gravity. Walter Williams questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #155,683 by lister 5/18/04 9:04:03 AM Reply	No Canadian I know says oot for out Or aboot for about. Or doot for doubt. At least up here at the Centre of the Universe. The hicks are a different story. We try to hide them under the darkened stairs or in labs for experimentation. Unfortunately sometimes some escape and manage to figure out how to remove the duct tape from their mouths. We apoolo, uh, apologize, yeah that's it. ;-) I've always pronounced it Das Boot since that's the way it looks and the way I've heard it pronounced. lister
Post #155,686 by admin 5/18/04 9:30:19 AM Reply	Well, we're rife with Canadians here And some of them talk that way. Not all, though. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #155,688 by lister 5/18/04 9:37:21 AM Reply	Where are they from? lister
Post #155,695 by admin 5/18/04 10:06:29 AM Reply	Windsor & Toronto One guy from Vancouver... his accent isn't quite as pronounced. The funny thing is that none of them think they do it. ;-) Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #155,698 by lister 5/18/04 10:19:56 AM Reply	How curious And what are their ages? None of my friends and work colleagues who are in their 30s say aboot. Nor have I heard anyone younger say that either. I wonder if that's due to growing up with American television. I definitely say those kinds of words with the ow sound. lister
Post #155,700 by admin 5/18/04 10:22:44 AM Reply	They're all young. And I question whether you actually realize you say it that way or not, given my experience here... ;-) Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #155,701 by lister 5/18/04 10:36:25 AM Reply	I guess I can pass for an American then I'll have to modify my speech when I travel abroad. :-p I definitely don't pronounce it like that and can hear the difference when I say boot, coot, loot and about, doubt in sentences. I can even make a few WAV files as proof. :-) lister
Post #155,702 by admin 5/18/04 10:48:52 AM Reply	When you're paying attention... When you're not paying attention, though, you may pronounce it differently. That's what the guys here do. "I do not say aboot!" Then 5 minutes later when he's not thinking about "aboot" any longer, out it comes. ;-) Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #155,713 by lister 5/18/04 11:57:28 AM Reply	I'd need proof for myself I'd be willing to put money up on that. :-) As I said in another message I can hear my and others sloppy English here when we say Toronto and don't know. There may be other words but those two jump out at me immediately. How does that sound to those not from Canada or America? lister
Post #155,721 by jake123 5/18/04 12:48:41 PM Reply	You don't get it It's not that we don't use the "ow" sound in about. It's that the American ear has been so coarsened by their version of the english language that they can't hear it anymore in comparison to their version, which to my ear sounds more like "ahw". I was talking to a client in Michigan not too long ago; the one that got me was the word "alright". I didn't even recognise it; in sloppy Canadian usage one might say "awright" - turn the L into a W. However, over in Michigan they just drop the L and the R completely: "a-ite". Truly remarkable. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #155,722 by lister 5/18/04 1:16:46 PM Reply	That could be it That's why I floated out the third party question. As for alright, I first heard a-ite from those hip-hop-headscarf-baggy-pants-with-one-pant-leg-up wearing doofus' with the strange finger positions, too much jewelry and the I'm-so-impressed-with-myself stance. That sucks if it's started to spread into common usage. A-ite makes one sound like a retard with his mouth full. lister
Post #155,726 by drewk 5/18/04 1:41:14 PM Reply	Nit: s/doofus'/doofi === Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
Post #155,735 by pwhysall 5/18/04 2:13:45 PM Reply	Nit: s/doofi/doofuses/ Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #155,739 by lister 5/18/04 2:24:29 PM Reply	Thought of the es version afterwards I couldn't be bothered to edit my message though. lister
Post #155,742 by drewk 5/18/04 2:38:17 PM Reply	Nit: s/doofuses/doofusen/ === Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
Post #155,743 by lister 5/18/04 2:42:42 PM Reply	dictionary.com and m-w.com say doofuses [link\|http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=doofuses\|http://dictionary.re...search?q=doofuses] [link\|http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=doofuses\|http://www.m-w.com/c...onary&va=doofuses] Neither show entries for doofusen. Unless that was intended to be a "HA HA!" that doesn't read as such to me. lister
Post #155,751 by drewk 5/18/04 3:47:46 PM Reply	You ... are ... *SHITTING ME!* I didn't think even "doofus" would be in the dictionary. Holy SHIT that's funny. === Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
Post #155,797 by pwhysall 5/18/04 6:30:07 PM Reply	That's because you're an illiterate colonial baboon. As I've long, long suspected. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #155,812 by lister 5/18/04 8:00:37 PM Reply	Hey watch the wide swath of that brush! It's not easy fighting the good fight for the Queen's English against the slow witted 800lb gorilla next door. lister
Post #155,809 by lister 5/18/04 7:57:31 PM Reply	No At least I hope not though I thought that chicken last night was suspicious. Fortunately a-ite hasn't been accepted yet. lister
Post #155,744 by Another Scott 5/18/04 2:44:53 PM Reply	There was a SNL skit along those lines ... Amy Poehler was a white suburban teenager sitting at the dinner table with her 1950-ish WASP parents and a sibling. She had the slouch, the frown, was talking about "bustin' a cap in yo' ass!", "aight!", etc., etc. As Homer would say, "It's funny because it's true!" Cheers, Scott.
Post #155,728 by ben_tilly 5/18/04 1:48:34 PM Reply	Exactly Which is why at [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=155707\|http://z.iwethey.org...?contentid=155707] I said, ..to American ears. Canadian ears can tell the difference between a Canadian saying "aboot" and "about". They don't sound at all the same. American ears hear them as being the same. I've been immersed enough in both places to understand how both groups hear the same thing differently. Related to this is the way that Canadians sometimes wind up being pushed into "translating" between, say, Americans and Australians. The Canadian understands both, and both understand the Canadian. The two can literally not understand each other. Oh, written down they would know what the other one is saying. But they interpret what they hear sufficiently differently to create a significant comprehension barrier. And yes, Scott, that means that you're wrong in addition to being right. Even though what you hear a Canadian say is "aboot", I guarantee you that it isn't really "aboot" - you just can't tell the difference. Cheers, Ben To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link\|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20\|Nebraska Supreme Court]
Post #155,732 by admin 5/18/04 2:07:15 PM Reply	Actually... You're right, it isn't "aboot", but most people understand that presentation better. It's a much subtler distinction, and I can tell the difference. It's more like "abowoot"... the progression is abowt -> abowoot -> aboot. Enough people hear it as "aboot", though, that that's what I have to say when I'm talking about it. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #155,787 by boxley 5/18/04 5:51:27 PM Reply	peter jennings does it every nite Time for Lord Stanley to get a Tan questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #155,707 by ben_tilly 5/18/04 11:11:33 AM Reply	That's what I thought when I lived in Canada And then I moved to the USA. I still didn't think that. Then after living in the USA and picking up a US accent I went back to Victoria. I was amazed. Suddenly I understood exactly why Americans think that Canadians say "oot and aboot"! Given that experience, I'm willing to bet that not only are you wrong, but you say things that way..to American ears. Cheers, Ben To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link\|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20\|Nebraska Supreme Court]
Post #155,710 by lister 5/18/04 11:37:25 AM Reply	shrug I can hear myself and other Torontonians pronounce Toronto as Tronoh or Toronoh and myself pronounce "don't know" as dough-no (I don't know if that's a Canadian or Toronto thing.) It is a little odd to hear Americans properly enunciate Toronto saying that last t more strongly. It stood out quite strongly during that Simpsons episode and Conan's visit here in February. That's why I think I'd be aware of saying aboot rather than abowt. lister
Post #155,780 by Meerkat 5/18/04 5:36:01 PM Reply	There's a 'Tronno' in Australia too Toronto, a suburb of the city of Newcastle, is often heard as 'Tronno'. Kind of like Minno (Minto), and you even hear Sinny (Sydney) from time to time... Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
Post #155,813 by lister 5/18/04 8:02:20 PM Reply	Just the locals? Or everyone? There's a Toronto in the midwest USA somewhere. Wonder how the butchering is done there... lister
Post #155,818 by boxley 5/18/04 8:27:38 PM Reply	locals call it tronna everyone else calls it hogtown thanx, bill Time for Lord Stanley to get a Tan questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #155,855 by Meerkat 5/19/04 12:11:03 AM Reply	May be based more on upbringing Had I said 'Tronno' as a child I would have been (ok, probably was , plenty of times) hastily corrected. I don't know any Toronto locals so I can't say what they generally call it. Kinda hard to say if 'Tronno' is poor pronunciation or just part of the Australian passion for abbreviating words. Dunno. :) Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
Post #153,816 by CRConrad 5/5/04 2:44:00 AM Reply	It's the same sound all the way through, not a diphtong. Which is the trouble with "boat"; the vowel sound there starts out as one thing after the 'b', and ends up as something else just before the 't'. So, in that respect, das German "Boot" is more like the English "boot", where you also have the same single vowel sound all the way -- only trouble is, it's not the same sound; the English 'oo' in "boot" sounds much more "sissy". (Because it is pronounced farther to the front of your mouth, I think.) The German one is "deeper" or "darker" or... Ah, fuck knows how to express this shit in words. All in all, though, I'd say the closest you can get to das German "Boot" in written English is "bawt"; i.e, the word "awe" sandwiched in between a 'b' and a 't'. (Where, in a charming display of the logic and consistency of English spelling, the two letters 'a' and 'w' denote a single sound.) HTH! [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575\|Ashton Brown]
Post #153,819 by Meerkat 5/5/04 5:07:04 AM Reply	Two letters denote a single sound? How about... ...Four. "Bought". From an Australian point of view that'd be the same as b-awe-t. But a generic American-accented 'bought' would be more akin to an Australian 'bart'...or, hmm - actually you're quite right: Ah, fuck knows how to express this shit in words. (That'd be an lrpd candidate if the lrpd hadn't taken a vow of non-potty-mouthedness...) Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
Post #153,820 by admin 5/5/04 7:39:07 AM Reply	Interesting... That doesn't sound at all like the pronunciation sound files I've come across. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #153,824 by boxley 5/5/04 9:39:22 AM Reply	Asking CRC how to say something is like asking truman capote how to say gaiter. Brilliant linguist (like CRC) but southern spoken. CRC is southern via sweden and finland. I have heard the oldenburg (saxony) folks call it bot where the o is like the english bot in robot with a slight u flavor to the o. thanx, bill attempting to explain profiling doesn't require one to take a position for or against it any more than attempting to explain gravity requires one to be for or against gravity. Walter Williams questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #153,909 by CRConrad 5/5/04 5:24:46 PM Reply	Yah, well, as the BOx sez, "with a slight u flavor to the o" But HTF do you write that?!?() Or, alternatively, "like the english bot in robot" -- only A) longer, and B) provided it's Cultured British English were talking about. ('Coz otherwise it'd become too much like "baht", and WTF does the Thai currency have to do with this?) HT... Nah, OK, it probably won't; but I did* try my best. (): Yeah, yeah, I know -- like this: "with a slight u flavor to the o"! [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad]* (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575\|Ashton Brown]

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