Post #153,556
5/3/04 6:11:53 PM
5/4/04 10:42:37 AM
|
You disappoint
in you predictable bafflegab, and in your lack of analysis when it comes to mumblefucking the Party Line. To wit: I have no idea if GW's decision to plant his ass on a carrier was done for sweeps or not (though I don't think the government makes its income from Nielson ratings). Puh-LEEEEZE, Beep! Mission Acomplished was complete and utter Shrubbish, done exclusively to shore up sagging ratings (which, in case you haven't noticed, is exactly what a network does during sweeps!) I don't recall exactly what the cause for his sag that time was; I'm sure the LRPD will be happy to oblige. But Mission Acomplished was more than a Photo Op, It was a Made-For-TeeVee Production, and couldn't have happened at a better time for Made-For-TeeVee Productions: May Sweeps! And you damn well know that, too! And that's what disappoints. Still, if your disappointment in me is because I want to make sure that these dead get their proper acknowledgement, I can indeed live with that. No, BeeP, that's not it...and you know that, too.... [Edit: fixed ubiquitous typos...] jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
Edited by jb4
May 4, 2004, 10:42:37 AM EDT
|
Post #153,575
5/3/04 8:25:57 PM
|
Had things gone smoother in Iraq, ...
(i.e. welcoming flowers tossed by Iraqis) you would be seeing that footage now, preceded by "I'm George Bush, and I approved this message".
What pissed me off was that the ship had been delayed a day from going into its home port so the photo op could be had. The crew had been on an extended cruise and was anxious to see the loved ones left at home.
The flight suit stint was plagiarized from a prior Putin flight in a fighter plane to Chechnya. Hey, it worked for a commie!
Alex
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
|
Post #153,577
5/3/04 8:41:11 PM
|
Well, the Neoconmen all came from that milieu. Coincidence?
|
Post #153,654
5/4/04 9:46:51 AM
|
Wrong.
He doesn't say "approved", he says "approo". A few friends and I were discussing this the other day. We marvelled at how that could have gotten past the editors. I mean, listen close, there is no "v" in what he says. In fact, it's impossible to determine if he meant to say "approved" or "approve".
And the thing is, that's all I remember about those ads, "My name is George W. Bush and ah approo this messeege."
Gah, shouldn't it be a requirement that the President of the United States be able to speak English at least as well as the average four year old?
bcnu,
Mikem
|
Post #153,660
5/4/04 10:16:25 AM
|
I stand corrected! :)
Alex
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
|
Post #153,663
5/4/04 10:34:36 AM
|
As I've been telling people lately...
...Texas is a marvelous state.
Why, they've managed to produce not one, but TWO people who became President of the United States despite the handicap of having english as their second language!
[image|/forums/images/warning.png|0|This is sarcasm...]
Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain.
You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
|
Post #153,673
5/4/04 10:56:16 AM
5/4/04 11:01:30 AM
|
Texans speaking English? As a second language?
I don't believe it. I've never heard a Texan do that before and I've got family (by marriage) in Texas. ;-)
[Edit] Absolutely had to add the (by marriage). :-D
bcnu,
Mikem
Edited by mmoffitt
May 4, 2004, 11:01:30 AM EDT
|
Post #153,688
5/4/04 11:35:10 AM
|
Re: your edit
As well you should!!!!!!!
;-)
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
|
Post #153,590
5/3/04 10:04:26 PM
|
What=ever.
I don't give a rats ass about party line in this charade. And because Bush did it that makes it right now?
Puhleeze.
I wanted the show aired in a manner without reproach. It seems you lack that decency, or seem to think I do.
Title says it all.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #153,607
5/4/04 1:46:18 AM
|
Bullshit, Beepster.
Bill tries to squirm: I wanted the show aired in a manner without reproach. Problem is, it WAS aired "in a manner without reproach"; any "reproach" there was has been shown to be hypocritical NeoCon-manufactured bullshit -- which YOU, at first, tried to espouse here. Now that that has been shown to be so, you're reverting to a feeble "Caesar's Wife" stance... Which nobody's buying. It seems you lack that decency, or seem to think I do. If anything, then obviously the latter (I could make that case, if you want). But actually, of course, neither of those were probably intended; this is just another attempt at a smoke-screen from you. Title says it all. Yeah, it says this: "Let's all declare BeeP the God of debating here, so HE gets to decide when a debate is over. The alternative, of him having to explicitly admit that his beloved NeoCons (and by extension, he himself, for defending them) were Just Plain Wrong, is obviously not on." THAT is what your title says. I don't think anyone is buying that one either.
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
|
Post #153,617
5/4/04 6:38:45 AM
|
Gimme a break, Christian.
It WOULD be more appropriate to air on Memorial Day - a holiday that is so close (May 31), and and so obviously a better time to do it, it's natural to look for the 'reason' for thier timing.
Am _I_ now defending the current junta in the US? Hardly. Did Bill call the reading itself reprehensible? Hardly.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #153,623
5/4/04 7:13:17 AM
|
"Appropriate time" ??
How about every fucking Day?
A reminder about Our Investment, its ROI - and whether or not 'we' are happy with that particular bizness proposition, how it was hawked (or Chicken-hawked), how the daily spin is altered.
What particular daily soundbite can be more basic than that? The weather? Some gameshow winners? Oil prices?
This needs apologies to the 'sensitive' amongst us??
Reserve the reality numbers for "A Special Day\ufffd" ??
Pshaw. Pure fucking euphemism-R-US.
|
Post #153,627
5/4/04 7:38:03 AM
|
Every day would be great.
But they AREN'T doing that, are they?
So why did they use the timing they did? If they AREN'T going to announce the names every day, why NOT on Memorial Day?
Have you no suspicion, man?
Do you think that those that seek the Bush / Republican position in the government are dewy pure shining examples of virtue?
Sometimes, that's what political discussion sounds like on this board. It's shameful - not because the IWETHEY-Politicos oppose Bush and the Republicans (the man's a boob, and he's been dismantling the constitution, the economy, and wrecking the very safety of the people of the US since he appropriated the office), but because of the inability to be critical of the opposition to the B/R policies and actions.
Bah.
Sheep. There are sheep on both sides.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #153,644
5/4/04 9:00:18 AM
|
I think Koppel did it when he did because...
1) April was the deadliest month for the US in Iraq so far.
2) Niteline tries to be a topical news program.
3) It helps build ratings for the show due to the "controversy" and echos of Life magazine's issue on those who died in a week in Vietnam.
If you buy those reasons, then that's why it wasn't on Memorial Day, that's why it wasn't about Afghanistan, that's why it's not done every day (though the Newshour on PBS does do it every week or so when they have identification).
I don't know what the decision process in deciding to do the show and when was, but I think it's a tempest in a teapot.
"Anything to distract people from what the future of the country should be" seems to be the political MO these days...
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
|
Post #153,647
5/4/04 9:11:36 AM
|
"As long as you can get them asking the wrong questions ...
... it doesn't really matter what the answers are?"
-- Anon (Meaning I can't find the cite)
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
|
Post #153,668
5/4/04 10:48:29 AM
|
"But they AREN'T doing that, are they?"
Answer: Yes, they are. PBS's Lehrer does it every day (as mentioned elsewhere in this thread).
But then, PBS's budget is under constant threat...by the Neocons, of course.
Have you no suspicion, man?
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
|
Post #153,700
5/4/04 12:08:03 PM
|
Depends on who "they" is.
I'd expect PBS to be better in this regard, actually.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #153,758
5/4/04 5:16:27 PM
|
No sir it was not.
It was obvious in the press coverage here that the timing of the show made it suspect. This is not >my observation<. There was widespread reaction on both sides...thus making the show "debateable". If you don't believe that, oh fucking well my fine Finnish friend. For whatever reason, you appear to believe that ratings sweeps are a neo-con invention and that by raising that as an issue I have somehow taken "the party line".
I have NO ISSUE with the program (stated from the first post..no re-invention necessary). Memorial Day would have been MORE APPROPRIATE. The fact that it was NOT done then (a holiday for THAT SPECIFIC PURPOSE)and instead done on the 2nd day of sweeps detracts from the show and by doing so tarnishes those names >for that specific section of the audience<.
I would rather there NOT have been this debate. And beyond those who think that it should not be done (for whatever reason and I am NOT one of these people), airing the show around a national holiday to honor those who have fallen in defense of our land would have been more appropriate. That is and will continue to be my point. The use of the aircraft carrier showboat to declare it an "anniversary show" is bogus.
I have no issue with the dailies on PBS either. These soldiers died doing their sworn duty. They should be honored and memorialized whether or not you agree with the reason they are there.
And jb...be careful, there's a Democrat in NJ cutting funding for public broadcasting and the arts among other "atrocities" "(to answer your comment elsewhere in the thread)
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #153,761
5/4/04 5:48:09 PM
5/4/04 5:49:52 PM
|
1 Democrat, 253 Republicans. Whoop-De-Doo!
I'm sure that you found a single Democrat amongst all the neocons who think that NPR is somehow "Communist" is significant in your little world. To me, it demonstrates again what is both the biggest strength and the greatest weakness of the less-than-neocon brain: The inability or unwillingness to slavishly toe the Party Line.
If only that flaw were part of your Constitution....
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
Edited by jb4
May 4, 2004, 05:49:52 PM EDT
|
Post #153,773
5/4/04 7:02:12 PM
|
Dunno where the numbers are from
I was talking about the governor. Who is doing what most only talk about. Cutting funding of these programs.
And why is it that counterbalancing the oh so one sided arguments here is automatically responded to with the knee-jerk "towing the party line" response?
You want to go platform by platform through all members of government, bet you'll find alot more R on your side than you would care to admit, and alot more D against you that you would care to admit. Problem with that is it doesn't fit nicely into your "stance" that all things R are EVIL. (or maybe thats Ross ;-) And you are just "most" things.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #153,829
5/5/04 10:04:45 AM
|
Re: Towing [sic] the Party line
The Party Line for this extravaganza goes something like this: The Nightline show was pandering to the Anti-Bush\n segment exclusively; it was never designed as a patriotic\n or memorial display; it was simply to increase Ratings\n (even though the people at ABC said ahead of time that they\n expected a decrease in ratings for the show).\n\n PBS and NPR are the bellwether for the vast Left Wing\n Liberal Bias in the Media, and therefore their funding \n should be cut or eliminated; we don't want to spend \n Taxpayer Money\ufffd to promote such anti-American tripe as \n what they routinely broadcast. How'm I doing so far? I think you'll find a rather high correlation coefficient between this and your own expressly presented sentiments here in this thread. As far as the numbers go, I completely made them up. (Never let it be said that I can't learn from our leaders in Washington ;-) ) The numbers are a red herring, as we both know (and at least I will readily admit); the point is not the numbers, the point is the sentiment. One can take a snapshot of any one of these exchanges in this thread, and say "No, I didn't say that", and they'd be right. It's called taking something out of context. Overall, Bill, you have expressed the Party Line listed above quite clearly. And you complain about counterbalancing. jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
|
Post #153,837
5/5/04 10:56:14 AM
|
You certainly are stretching to get there.
I mentioned nothing regarding NPR beyond the fact that there are people cutting that funding that are outside of your "evil empire" sphere of influence. Further, I support their continuing coverage of the war and their continued funding (one of the places I part ways with my Libby brethren...another is antitrust).
The ONLY reason I gave for the change in timing of the show was because the timing made it DEBATEABLE. (Hence this thread, started by someone other than myself I might add). The timing of the show, regardless of whether or not they >said< it was gonna be a dud in the ratings, made their motives suspect. The creation of an "anniversary" around a suspect action of the CIC and his misuse of a flight suit makes the timing even MORE suspicious. BUT IN THE END, THEIR MOTIVES ARE NOT THE POINT!!!
Furthermore, I have stated from my very first post that I SUPPORT THE BROADCAST! (sheesh, how anti-party line can you get?)
There would have been none such suspicion about motive, nor any of the pushback against the show had the timing been more in line with the use of Memorial Day to backdrop the show. My only point in this entire "creation" of my viewpoint.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #153,841
5/5/04 11:26:47 AM
|
Point(s) taken
However, do you really think that Sinclair would have not blocked the transmission of the same show, done the same way, with the same amount of PR, had the show been broadcast on Memorial Day as you suggest? (Remember, that Sinclair blocked the broadcast was the original point of this thread...)
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
|
Post #153,857
5/5/04 1:43:41 PM
|
I do, at least.
Blocking a memorial of soldiers on Memorial Day would have looked EXTREMELY bad.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #153,859
5/5/04 1:47:07 PM
|
Really?
According to Sinclair, the program is "motivated by a political agenda designed to undermine the efforts of the United States in Iraq." That motivation isn't going to change by postponing the program by 30 days, now is it?
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
|
Post #153,872
5/5/04 2:39:46 PM
|
You wouldn't think so, but
That would be akin to saying that Memorial Day was unpatriotic.
Not even President Boob could get away with that.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #153,874
5/5/04 2:48:47 PM
|
Is he going to make that argument?
For a Memorial Day broadcast I think not. I think Sinclair's determination was based on the timing of the show and the creation of the "anniversary".
Even conservative talk radio would have been forced to blast him had he raised the same challenge on a Memorial Day broadcast. That would have been something to see, actually :-)
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #153,814
5/5/04 2:12:17 AM
|
Actually, you're quite right; I got your holidays mixed up.
El Beepo explains: I have NO ISSUE with the program (stated from the first post..no re-invention necessary). Memorial Day would have been MORE APPROPRIATE. The fact that it was NOT done then (a holiday for THAT SPECIFIC PURPOSE)and instead done on the 2nd day of sweeps detracts from the show and by doing so tarnishes those names >for that specific section of the audience<. Since somebody mentioned somewhere nearby that "Memorial Day" is the 31st of May -- i.e, in just a few weeks -- I have to change my stance and pretty much completely agree with you. I thought you were advocating putting it off way into the autumn, where it would either A) drown in all the directly-election-related meeja hoopla, or B) be all the more easily explained away -- and possibly quashed altogether -- as a part of said hoopla. But now that I think about it, it must have been "Labor [sic] Day" (isn't that sometime towards the end of October?) that I was thinking of... Sorry; you were right and I was wrong.
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
|
Post #153,815
5/5/04 2:17:02 AM
|
It's all good, brutha!
Besides, right and wrong is pretty black and white in a grayscale world.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #153,825
5/5/04 9:50:55 AM
|
(US) Labor Day: 1st Monday in September
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
|
Post #153,850
5/5/04 12:21:27 PM
|
Nah, in the Fall is when we do it
the Canadians, that is... on November 11th. Woe betide the PM that schedules an election on that date; they'd get crushed.
The title of our holiday is Remembrance Day. We have two minutes of silence at 11AM on the 11th day of the 11th month, which is when the armstice ending the Great War was signed in Versailles.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Post #153,906
5/5/04 5:15:34 PM
|
Also in US as Veteran's Day.
[link|http://www1.va.gov/vetsday/|Veteran's Day] was originally called Armistice Day (after beating the Huns in WW-I). But then, this being the US, it is shifted to the nearest Monday to make for 3-day weekends.
The intent of the day is to honor war veterans (dead or alive). Actual "celebration" is usually a minute of silence at 11:11 AM.
Alex
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
|
Post #153,911
5/5/04 5:27:03 PM
|
Shouldn't that have been at 11 minutes past the hour...?
|
Post #153,664
5/4/04 10:37:06 AM
|
Gotta (somewhat) agree with Beep.
I do doubt that there was a conscious "let's manipulate the hearts+minds" decision with this broadcast. I also doubt that they said, "it's sweeps, what's the most controversial thing we can do to boost viewership?"
On the other hand, I doubt very strongly that the second item was completely overlooked in the decision making process about when to air this episode.
Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain.
You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
|
Post #153,677
5/4/04 11:02:32 AM
|
A solution more acceptable? to the Beepster.
We should have waited until the number reached 1,000. Why report "intermediate values"?
bcnu,
Mikem
|
Post #153,689
5/4/04 11:36:09 AM
|
Re: A solution more acceptable? to the Beepster.
At the current rate of "attrition", that'd probably occur right around Memorial Day.
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
|
Post #153,756
5/4/04 4:43:00 PM
|
How about...
...a resounding "fuck you" to that sentiment.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #153,723
5/4/04 1:36:04 PM
|
Please kill this discussion or move to politics
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act
- [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
|
