IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New Thunder on the right
Ralph Peters (retired military, columnist, occasional novelist, detested Clinton and admires Bush) waxes wroth in today's NY Post at the limp-wristed civilians who are impeding our Total Victory™ in Fallujah. From a soldier's standpoint Peters' arguments are understandable: if the foes (it pleases Ralph to call them "terrorists," which under Newspeak has come to mean anybody who shoots back at American forces) are given a respite they will likely employ it to "prepare their defenses, construct ambushes and organize a far tougher resistance than they could have presented two weeks ago." Dr. Peter prescribes an aggressive course of Shock and Awe:
Make no mistake: There can be no compromise in Fallujah. If we stop one inch short of knocking down the last door in the last house in the city, our enemies will be able to present the Battle of Fallujah to their sympathizers as a great victory: They fought the Americans to a stalemate (with the implication that, next time, the Americans will be defeated and driven from the Middle East).

Of course, we could defeat them. We know that. But in the broken world between the Bosporus and the Indus, seductive lies trump hard facts. Our insipid diplomacy plays into the hands of our enemies: It looks like cowardice. And it is.

We must not only win, we must be seen to win, graphically and decisively.

"Experts" warn that we mustn't alienate the hard-core Sunnis or the fundamentalist Shia's. Wake up and smell the cordite: They're already alienated. They'll never love us. So we'd better make damned sure they fear us.

The Battle of Fallujah isn't about one city. It's about the future of the entire Middle East. Despite the low number of casualties in historical terms, this could prove to be one of the decisive battles of history in its long-term effects.

We must win. If the enemy fights from mosques, level the mosques. If they fight from hospitals, gut the hospitals. If they open fire from orphanages, turn them into blackened shells. We cannot allow terrorists any sanctuaries. The men we face - and the watching world - interpret our decency as weakness.
[link|http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/23293.htm|http://www.nypost.co...umnists/23293.htm]

Again, it's difficult to fault the sense of this from the soldier's perspective. Of course, it also rather begs the question of our notional "decency." Much used to be made of the callousness of our Vietnamese enemies and their disregard of innocent lives. Let us imagine, for example, that during the Tet Offensive we had intercepted a communiqué from General Giap concerning the tactics to be employed in the battle for Hue: "If the enemy fights from churches, level the churches. If they fight from hospitals, gut the hospitals. If they open fire from orphanages, turn them into blackened shells." Would this not have been held up as proof of the bestial cruelty of the communist foe? Worshippers can flee a mosque, I daresay, but patients and staff may not be able to evacuate a hospital at need, and urchins on their chubby little pins might not be able to make it out of the orphanage before General Peters' terrible swift sword descends. It matters not. For the locals to resist our invasion and conquest of Iraq is ipso facto to commit a terrorist act, and against terrorism any countermeasures are permissible, and culpability for such "collateral damage" as may occur attaches entirely to the enemy and not at all to ourselves.

For a certain large segment of our population, that formulation will be enough (to paraphrase President Nixon, that droll man, if America does it, it's not an atrocity), and to the grunt on the ground in Iraq fifty flattened foundlings will understandably appear in the light of an acceptable tradeoff if the same artillery strike also takes out some oppo firepower. Others may wonder whether the casual ruthlessness of "Let a hundred orphans burn" really suits us as a governing philosophy. If we keep to the course of empire, we'll have ample opportunity to find out.

The LRPD as I type this post is: "Cry havoc! And let slip the dogs of war!"

cordially,
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
New It certainly leave one question unanswered...
It is plausable, nay, probable that the Terrorists that have "invaded" Fallujah, have ALWAYS lived there. That Saddam Hussein himself may have had to deal with such Terrorists.

Given the: "If the enemy fights from mosques, level the mosques. If they fight from hospitals, gut the hospitals. If they open fire from orphanages, turn them into blackened shells." - isn't it possible that Saddam's mass murder gravesites were the direct result of Saddam's attempts to deal with these Terrorists?

Perhaps those mass murder gravesites were justified.
New Saddam Hussein and the "terrorists"
Along these same lines, some bright blogger—I can't, alas, produce a citation—suggested recently, anent the manhandling of our immolated mercenaries last month, that perhaps the deposed president's "tough love" administrative practices, so deplored at the time on these shores, was necessary to keep his depraved and savage subjects in line, and that our best course now might be to apologize, dust him off and re-install him in the office he graced with such distinction for a quarter century, having first secured his promise not in future to invade his neighbors unless to further our strategic objectives, and only then with the personal permission of the Vice President or the Secretary of Defense.

A stretch, true, but a more plausible solution to this mess than President Chalabi.

cordially,
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
New Sounds familiar.
I heard the same kind of thing after the Soviet Union fell. Went something like, "Well, at least the Bolsheviks kept the Slavs from killing each other."
bcnu,
Mikem
New You just wait till Saddam gets home young man!
--
Chris Altmann
New Re: Saddam Hussein and the "terrorists"
Yes, it's becoming harder and harder to ignore that thought, isn't it? I was trying to say much the same thing [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=152931|here].

Bill Bennet's gambling addiction doesn't amount to squat compared to W's.
I'm not a complete idiot -- some parts are missing
New You'd have to plumb the mind of a Neoconman,
(not a very long stick needed for such 'depths')

to fully grok why so much of this stuff just goes Z----->ooom, right over their preverted Religio-besotted tiny little imaginations. Empathy is a word they have not ever even heard - for them it is like 'sincerity' [when you can fake that, you've got it Made]. Just look at their eyes, faces: all. dull..

Fortunately, My Gramma taught-by-example just where this kind of mindset leads. Now I have to watch her lesson being taught One More Time. (It won't be enough, either.. such a short attention span -- with All These Toys to mesmerize the sheep, and so effectively, 24/7)



Yawn.. reruns are so Boring.
Caligula, Bush, Ashcroft, Rove, Wolfie et al - real Bores all.
We deserve them, just now. We are Boring. Boring. Bor..
New Another important connection to Tet
There is another important connection to the Tet offensive here. The Tet offensive is widely taken as the turning point of the war, when it began to come apart for the US. What to many people are not really aware of is that the in military terms the US won the Tet offense, but the consequences where still enough to make us lose the war.

We can surely crush Fallujah if we want to. The question becomes, do we want to lower ourselves to Saddam's level to do so? If we are holding power through fear, how are we better then the government we replaced? How many American lives are we willing to risk to protect the bystanders in Fallujah?

Of course, people like Peters don't generally consider these sorts of questions meaningfull. They would be happy protecting American by killing everybody in the rest of the world. And they would lable this as bringing peace without any sense of irony or tragedy.

Jay
New Battle of Trenton
In the American Revolution, the first real victory came at Trenton - and was not against the British, rather Hessian mercenaries. It was a tiny battle in comparison to modern ones - no Americans died and only a few of the enemy (including their Herr Oberst). But, the psychological impact was devastating. The British knew then, the Americans would not quit - and it became a practical matter of balancing more pressing needs at home against foreign adventures.

Even after getting reamed at Gettysburg, at Vicksburg, and after being besieged at Petersburg, the Confederates could have won simply by holding onto Atlanta and harassing Sherman until the fall elections of 1864. The invader has a massive onus - you would think we would have learned this lesson by now. The cretins in power are however incapable of drawing correct conclusions about anything. A more incompetent Executive has never existed.
-drl
New Atlanta campaign
What he said... and totally OT, Sherman's general [link|http://home.att.net/~dmercado/chronolo.htm|Thomas] (another Virginian!) deserves a lot of credit there. I've always been a big fan.
I'm not a complete idiot -- some parts are missing
New I have two reactions to this
The first one, the gut reactiion, is "if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen". The article is correct: we cannot win in Iraq without making them fear us. That's how we used to fight in all the wars before Vietnam. Level everything that fires at you, and if the civilians weren't evacuated beforehand, it's not your fault.

Then I let the coolaid out of my system, recall all I know about propaganda, and I realize that somebody did a card trck on me. While I was looking the other way, they substituted "prevent terror attacks on US interests" with "win the Iraq War". Those things may be connected, but not equal.

The best possible way to prevent terror attacks is to stop using oil. Make the whole region irrelevant. Bush's gamble on success in Iraq (assuming he was smart enough to understand that he is indeed gambling) was a very doubious way to stop terrorism. It's no quicker than alternative energy, and much more costly. And now it's failing.

The failure to create a decent country in Iraq is almost unavoidable. We can't convince them, and we don't dare kill them. If we had men like Roosevelt and Eisenhower at the top, we may have had a chance. With the scum we have now, things will get a lot worse before they get better. Arabs will learn not only to hate US, but to fear us not. They will re-learn that we can't fight people - a lesson lost since Vietnam. We will pay heavy price for Bush's gamble.
--

Buy high, sell sober.
New And what is thunder?
A lot of hot air moving around very fast.

Describes this "article" rather accurately, wouldn't you agree?
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New actually it put me more in mind
of Himmler's 1943 remarks at Poznan:
One principle must be absolute for the SS man: we must be honest, decent, loyal, and comradely to members of our own blood and to no one else. What happens to the Russians, what happens to the Czechs, is a matter of utter indifference to me. Such good blood of our own kind as there may be among the nations we shall acquire for ourselves, if necessary by taking away the children and bringing them up among us. Whether the other peoples live in comfort or perish of hunger interests me only in so far as we need them as slaves for our Kultur. Whether or not 10,000 Russian women collapse from exhaustion while digging a tank ditch interests me only in so far as the tank ditch is completed for Germany. We shall never be rough or heartless where it is not necessary; that is clear. We Germans, who are the only people in the world who have a decent attitude to animals, will also adopt a decent attitude to these human animals, but it is a crime against our own blood to worry about them and to bring them ideals. I shall speak to you here with all frankness of a very grave matter. Among ourselves it should be mentioned quite frankly, and yet we will never speak of it publicly. I mean the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish people.. . . Most of you know what it means to see a hundred corpses lying together, five hundred, or a thousand. To have stuck it out and at the same time—apart from exceptions caused by human weakness—to have remained decent fellows, that is what has made us hard. This is a page of glory in our history which has never been written and shall never be written.
Make the appropriate national substitutions, note the importance laid in each screed on "decency"...but of course, the contrast between Himmler's depraved indifference to the deaths of innocents and Ralph Peters' patriotic and lofty indifference to the deaths of innocents is absolute, and no loyal citizen of this brave New American Century would be tempted for a moment to suggest any points of correspondence.

cordially,
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
New Common thread.. the BornAgain neuron-confounding experience
(Heard review earlier of, The Jesus Factor re GWB's BornAgainness, on NPR.)

This creepy wastrel, with the mental acuity of a mayfly -- is Doing Gawd's Work; the sucker admits to Believing This. Not much more can/need be said.

Himmler, the failed chicken farmer - had his epiphany on peering into the dead but turbulent eyes of Herr Schickelgruber [sp? CRC once corrected] and saw there: an end to his days of scraping out all that chickenshit. Insted he would heap megatons of same on anyone not-him. And he had the bag with the codes, of his day.

(Met a guy who had met Himmler once, for about an hour - as the war was starting to crash down on the \ufffdbermensch.. Interesting vignette of his demeanor.)

Such are the 'leaders' - last century and, so far. This film could never get financing, but - we get to live through it.


O schlimmer zeit.
O .. schlim-mer-zeit.


F. Schubert, lied
New Chocolate Thunder aka Thing 2!
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New I feel the same way about the lottery
I feel the same way about the lottery. Every week I drop my dollar into the system, and every week I don't win the jackpot, and every week I look more like a fool and a hopeless, innumerate loser.
After way too many years of this ineffectiveness, I now realize that the only way to come out looking like a winner would be to actually win the sucker once and for all. My PhD think-tank friends tell me that buying $2000 worth of tickets a day instead of $1 a week would increase my chances of winning several times over--so that's what I've decided to do--because I can no longer afford to fail and look like a fool in front of my friends.
Make no mistake: There can be no compromise in Fallujah. If we stop one inch short of knocking down the last door in the last house in the city, our enemies will be able to present the Battle of Fallujah to their sympathizers as a great victory: They fought the Americans to a stalemate (with the implication that, next time, the Americans will be defeated and driven from the Middle East).

Of course, we could defeat them. We know that. But in the broken world between the Bosporus and the Indus, seductive lies trump hard facts. Our insipid diplomacy plays into the hands of our enemies: It looks like cowardice. And it is.

We must not only win, we must be seen to win, graphically and decisively.


I'm not a complete idiot -- some parts are missing
     Thunder on the right - (rcareaga) - (15)
         It certainly leave one question unanswered... - (Simon_Jester) - (5)
             Saddam Hussein and the "terrorists" - (rcareaga) - (4)
                 Sounds familiar. - (mmoffitt)
                 You just wait till Saddam gets home young man! -NT - (altmann)
                 Re: Saddam Hussein and the "terrorists" - (GBert) - (1)
                     You'd have to plumb the mind of a Neoconman, - (Ashton)
         Another important connection to Tet - (JayMehaffey) - (2)
             Battle of Trenton - (deSitter) - (1)
                 Atlanta campaign - (GBert)
         I have two reactions to this - (Arkadiy)
         And what is thunder? - (jb4) - (3)
             actually it put me more in mind - (rcareaga) - (1)
                 Common thread.. the BornAgain neuron-confounding experience - (Ashton)
             Chocolate Thunder aka Thing 2! -NT - (bepatient)
         I feel the same way about the lottery - (GBert)

Why does this guitar smell like CHEESE?!?
109 ms