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New Seems perfectly pitched to level of the US 'decision'-maker
Since 'upgrade' is all they have ever known, why.. what's a Chief Information Officer for?







Gawd I Love bizness TLAs, Armanis and all..
New I just realized you annoy me
whenever a Linux VS Windows subject comes up and you berate management for not using Linux.

BUT YOU DON'T USE IT!

You are a hypocrite.

Please install it and play with it for a while.

What would happen if you found you don't like it?
New It's a simple decision / about complex things.
Let me clear that one up. (I thought I had) I don't Need to. (yet)

I "berate management" for being the suckers they have been, as outlined in numerous places (and here) over the many years - for remaining intentionally oblivious, obtuse! to the real maintenance and remaintenance costs of fragile, crappy software - thus perpetuating this boil on the asshole of humanity.

Then: repeatedly buying the obvious lies that, "the new version is better" and is "fixed". This is akin to replacing one's fleet of Co. Pintos - with new Pintos, over and over. Never mind that the crappy pot-metal EGR valve will do the same thing it always did. What would one call such a company - smart?

(And yes, I grok 'interoperability' with the other sheep: I KNOW (by now) that it isn't trivial for v. large orgs to 100% drop the Beast, though for many med. businesses - that might be wisest. If not yesterday.. then today; surely before Longhorn welds the lock-in and owns all your data in proprietary format - out of town, and forever.)

I need not run Linux to appreciate the differences; more importantly - to appreciate why they are significant differences. I have worked with complexity for 1.67 careers - a particle accelerator beats out your datacenter for sheer interrelated Complexity, hands down.

Linux gets better and better, easier to install, etc. It is even ~clear why: all those dedicated eyeballs. Similarly, O-Office obv can match M$ for all but the most complex issues involving repeated editing of docs, editing rollback with multiple permissions, etc. (a process I'm familiar with) - so that for most lesser needs, OO is now entirely adequate for exchange with others. Yada

(Leave networking out this, here - that appears the most compelling Difference re any sane business management. But I am a novice and can't make that argument from experience. But I know why AD sucks and will die, if it hasn't yet.)

I've spent enough hours with Knoppix to get the flavour and to see that it is as intuitive as any logic is. I also find that the plethora of, and interrelationship of numerous config files is neither simple nor evident -- it is Not a no-brainer: merely, it is (appears to be) utterly sound from the kernel to the libs, GPL add-ons and tailfins. I see that one can master the mix, with no more effort than that required to keep Doze limping along until the next internal suicide / the next need to purge the Registry via reload or lengthy surgery. But THAT I have 'mastered'-enough, minored? for MY purposes, already.

My disdain for 'bizness' droids is all about Business considerations, about not being a gullible sucker over and over; about gutlessness - and about the use of one's intelligence. OTOH My use of this machinery is Not about Business! It is intentionally limited; I have no need of spreadsheets, graphics manipulation, networking -- or many other aps as strain the glass-fragile Doze. I am truly grateful NOT to need a Daily Planner / palmpilot with a Schedule! (More than you can Know.)

ie I have spent as much effort as I think it's worth: to ensure that my dejunked OS-version of choice runs stably. And.. it does. I have little interest in becoming proficient in a number of OSs; other things interest me more. I have had that experience, from CP/M through DOS, .bat files of some complexity etc. Previously I have 'used' CDC-6600s, PDPs etc. I can do that stuff (simple scripting) if I have to. I can also change the oil cooler seals on my car engine. Of the two - -

But I don't have to, you see? So long as 98SE-lite accomplishes the 2 or 4 things at-a-time I ask it to do, without suiciding - it is adequate. Adequacy is a concept now foreign to our culture - had you noticed? I have admitted this:

WINDOWS IS ADEQUATE FOR SMALL PURPOSES, FOR LIGHT DUTY - WHERE THERE ARE NO CRITICAL DATA OR PROCESSES INVOLVED.
(And - it must be protected to a fare-thee-well, whenever it is exposed to anything outside one's box. Nowadays this may be done via a simple purchased router; once again - leaving as little as possible to the massively defective OS to manage.)

So then:
When.. Billy n'Bally find some way to influence standards next, such that my dead-simple system can no longer do even the nominal web-things I wish to do, THEN I shall have to burden brain with OSX? Linux (whichever distro 'installed' - certainly maintained via Debian and its Policy; its principles of testing and of upgrade control).

The Beast cannot screw up any of my stand-alone aps; if those work now, they will work forever - at least on legacy hardware. I may have to hoard some, as policy.. particularly if the DRM scam survives and GROWS.

{sigh}

And.. WTF - inevitably I *shall* be installing a *nix distro on the next 'obsolescent' box I can steal (in good condition); there's no hurry - because it IS kinda fun, when I'm in a certain masochistic mood to do stuff just for the hell of it. Meanwhile.. I take notes where I find that Knoppix's chosen mix isn't helping me find something that is interfering with MY WILL. Y'know? It's ten pages, to date.


Ashton, \ufffd-dilettante
New OT - Particle accelerators aren't necessarily complex...
A student of my father's built a 1.2 Mev accelerator for a high-school physics project, for example. I helped, albeit with minor suggestions and fetch-and-carry. (OK, he then got a free ride to Cal Tech, but...) Heh. It used to sit in our barn before one of my relatives cleaned it out and threw it away (!), not knowing what all the 'junk' was.

Cyclotrons aren't too complex, either.

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New I think he meant from an overall systems point of view.
With a real particle accelerator you've got vacuum systems to keep running, cooling systems, electronics, detectors, saftey interlocks, data analysis systems, power conversion, etc., etc. It's a lot more complex than PCs and networks overall because there's a lot more types of equipment involved.

Cheers,
Scott.
New *grin* I disagree.
vacuum systems to keep running
  • Accelerator, check

cooling systems,
  • PC, check
  • Accelerator, check

electronics
  • PC, check
  • Accelerator, check (surprisingly small amounts)

detectors (since we are talking about OSes here, I'll include virus/intrusion software)
  • PC, check
  • Accelerator, check

saftey interlocks
  • PC, check
  • Accelerator, check

data analysis systems
  • PC, check
  • Accelerator, check

power conversion
  • PC, check
  • Accelerator, check

etc., etc.
*chuckle* hard to quantify, but there wasn't too much 'etc' on the machine I worked on...

It's a lot more complex than PCs and networks overall because there's a lot more types of equipment involved.

Nah - it's really not. PCs and networks also have firewalls, routers, and on the software side (since we were talking about software, OSes specifically), so many more applications and interfaces that it's no contest...

PCs + networks are WAY more complicated than Atom Smashers.

*chuckle*

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New Since atom smasher systems include PCs and networks...
Consider the complexity of the [link|http://lhc-new-homepage.web.cern.ch/lhc-new-homepage/|Large Hadron Collider at CERN] versus a computer network [hardware and software] (recalling that CERN is highly networked and the LHC will generate [link|http://pcstats.cern.ch/icfa-scic/20030711-ICFA-HN.ppt|10s of pentabytes to exabytes of data] (see, e.g. slide 7 of the .PPT))....

Edit: Just in case my point isn't clear:
Yes, one can build a cyclotron with simple technology. After all, Lawrence started the first one in [link|http://www.aip.org/history/lawrence/first.htm|1930]. But some of the first PC networks were built in the 1960s, so comparing a farm-built cyclotron to a modern PC network, or vice versa, probably isn't a fair comparison... :-)

Cheers,
Scott.
Expand Edited by Another Scott April 7, 2004, 11:36:50 AM EDT
New Well, they CAN include PCs and networks, of course...
I was wondering if someone would bring that up!

They don't have to, though - and I don't think a 'single user' accelerator (like the one I worked on in HS) has to be more complex than a PC+network.

Heheh. I was just having fun with the analogy. *grin*

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New See my edited post above. :-)
New Oh well then..__________ Pshaw.
WTF.. amidst mountain vistas | for comic relief: I'll Bite on this digital-Farrago of the IT kind; it's a lot like some other fanciful logic- wetdreams on a variety of topics. Too earnest to be a gag!?

A whole 1.2 MeV High School accelerator! + faith in the Boolean nature of all processes [surely must ==] The Self-operating Accelerator Complex. Many of youse IT folk do tend to believe this kind of crazy stuff, I notice. In Your (VB) Dreams [tm]
Decided CIEIO CTO-material there, Fotheringay!

Methinks the gentleman doth trivialize by at least a couple orders of magnitude - did I mention Pshaw! ??
(My Seconds have already called - but you won't notice the aftereffects until you sneeze .. or try to shake your head)

If by 'accelerators' you refer to the industrial 'automatic' toys intended for use by what pass for "medical techs" -- on orders from physics-illiterate MDs: yes, more and more ON/OFF switches.. and let VB calculate the dosage (and maybe or maybe not measure it in any believable way. Twice.) I have stories of MRI burns, etc. {shudder} I never let anyone radiate moi - who knows less than I do about W.T.F. [they think] they are doing.

The research accelerator may be as doomed as general engineering, scientific research trends in US indicate. Thus moot as to what you actually needed to know way-back, when we built these; but not moot as to what actually is required to do such things. New accelerators (pretty simple 'complexes' by comparison with the past) like LAMP at LBL - are clearly Logo- Corp - "develop at taxpayers' expense then Patent" scams under the guise of "physics research". (Via a cohort there)

Indications of unreality:

You may Un-check every one of the neat little categories in your
[surely a pukka Power Point Primer on Accelerators for CTOs... but sans the Bullets]

A 20ish MeV (mere electron) Linac is no schoolboy project (unless via a Lot of donated stuff and nontrivial expertise). The waveguides must be elecrodeposited OFHC copper. Then the aluminum spacers have to be eaten away in the usual chemical soup Very Carefully. Then the testing fun begins. Accomplishing decent Q and other impedance matches is neither amateur "electroplating" nor Radio Amateur-grade Smith plotting (with some tens of K$ of test equipment). Then there are the Klystrons, the hi-power RF and the lore. And the physics.

Ditto - comparing a 'simple' Cyclotron (say an Eimac 304TL triode for the oscillator) of Glyptal + sealing-wax days+ lore - did I mention Lore? to functioning systems: is bogus. Sure, they both somehow involve physics.. so does a paper glider.

If you move on to a real *particle* accelerating Linac [like, minimally: protons thence to maybe even U-ions] your simple thesis is merely laughable. Quadrupole magnets incorporated within varying length drift tubes, as must also accommodate high RF fields without arcing ==> 10 -E[7] Torr ==> nowadays ion-pumps + very pricey very-hi-RPM turbopumps. All this with oodles of LN for cold-traps, maybe He reefers etc. Sorry, Skip - your description reads via Disney out of Sesame Street. A McCoy 60 model airplane engine vs a RR Merlin in a Spitfire. $$$ vs peanuts.

A mere 500 KV Cockroft-Walton cascade, with gradient equalizing rings, polished to a fare-thee-well etc - is a sculpture and not some off-shelf 5V/12V-sorta switching supply.

And when you start thinking about *real* ion sources, then multiple injectors, a n-GeV synchrotron guide field - powered by a pair of ex-minesweeper motor-generators -- 16KV @ 8 KA (for Ex) -- and the timing of various subsystems, extraction systems, vac, refrig, massive and micro power regulators, radiation detectors, quadrupole focussing lenses all over ... yada

We won't even pause to discuss variants of synchrotrons / rings. Or what a Health Physicist needs to know re shielding, etc. etc. How does one 'automate' a one-off project? (if it IS - about anything new, ie 'research')

I stand by my original comparison from actual work done; the digital diddling is a small fraction of the ballet act which happens very late-on - damn little is really closed-loop-sans need for human oversight, on many scales. Yes, closed loop eventually happens to certain parts -- after all the work has been done, and as complexity demands coordination and even time-share.

Even then, as problems occur - there is No Such Thing as "machine self-diagnosis and repair", except in your dreams, sheltered IT-person [insert Icelandic thorn-in-side]

(Next you'll be suggesting that some "farm" (?) of Billyware toy computers - might be a lot like a real computer ;-)


moi



Who still considers it a violation of Maxwell's Daemon and a few other hoary Laws:
that such a complex once ran for over a week - with mere 5 min/2 hours maint. checks == all those N! failure points just Didn't. Producing 5.5 10E12 particles per pulse 24/7 the rest of that period. Aside from required delivery optics changes - the main "collection of sources" (one several hundred meters up a hill + a beamline of magnets to transport same) managed to maintain near-exact repetition with little intervention.

Tell me again about your PByte Tandem processing millions of advertainment requests and printed spam <--> for another comparison. One is Science+Art; the other ___ is Donald Trump handmaiden support. Youse guys are tending the ovens of the new Auschwitz of The Mind. The slow death by ad-permeation of every second of 'life' that replaces Life.
Our Futchah, post '00:

Ads from the toilet bowl. Truly 'embedded' OSs to boot.
The McDoggie you ate for lunch will transmit its embedded message as and where you sit. Talking/Singing Shit [tm] [MadeinUSA]
[~Late 2006?]
Moved head yet? Fast?
{cackle}
New Know what's really stupid?
He'd love it.

As witnessed by a cow-orker's realisation that "sort -n" is roughly equivalent to n[0] hours VBA in Excel when required to sort the following data:

1234
1236B
1235A
1234A
1236A
1235
1234B
1235B
1236

into

1234
1234A
1234B
1235
1235A
1235B
1236
1236A
1236B

This compressed an afternoon's work into 5 minutes.


[0] Where n is the amount of time you spend reading the almost-useful-but-not-quite documentation.



Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
     FUD: Yankee Group: Linux Is No Bargain - (a6l6e6x) - (14)
         Seems perfectly pitched to level of the US 'decision'-maker - (Ashton) - (10)
             I just realized you annoy me - (broomberg) - (9)
                 It's a simple decision / about complex things. - (Ashton) - (7)
                     OT - Particle accelerators aren't necessarily complex... - (imric) - (6)
                         I think he meant from an overall systems point of view. - (Another Scott) - (5)
                             *grin* I disagree. - (imric) - (4)
                                 Since atom smasher systems include PCs and networks... - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                     Well, they CAN include PCs and networks, of course... - (imric) - (1)
                                         See my edited post above. :-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                                 Oh well then..__________ Pshaw. - (Ashton)
                 Know what's really stupid? - (pwhysall)
         Debunked already (about a week before your post :-) - (CRConrad) - (1)
             Thanks, I hadn't seen that. - (a6l6e6x)
         Re: FUD: Yankee Group: Linux Is No Bargain - (qstephens)

Note: this is not exactly the safest place for your hand.
96 ms