Post #147,727
3/23/04 8:14:31 AM
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To be perfectly honest
..it would almost be a relief if open warfare broke out in the entire region, with even the Russians involved and Yugo-once-ia. Have a nice little cataclysm to rearrange the entire map, put a final end to Islamiscist regimes, put Israel in its place with a mandated Palestinian state, make Russia happy with some kind of access to the sea. The Islamic world must be shown that their AD 900 lives are not worth a fig in 2004, that they must surrender to modernity or die. Period. There is no placating these people, let the gloves come off.
-drl
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Post #147,728
3/23/04 8:22:45 AM
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Range of options
In all out war, all bets are off, and prognostication is for fools.
What happens if after ten years of insane war, the Israelis all get killed, the Islamicists control the whole shooting match, and are all united under one leader, who hates both Russia and the West, and is not afraid of science?
Never forget that in the area in question there are a lot more Arabs than any other group: the Israelis are seriously outnumbered. Are you going to be willing to sacrifice tens of thousands of US lives for them? When you're talking about total war (and total war is not what has happened there, not by a long shot) total numbers count. In Europe, the Allies didn't have to worry about the ground at their back because they were filled with friendly people (ie- non-Germans). In the theatre, the enemy were seriously outnumbered, so when total war came in 1944, the allies could succeed. However, in the ME as a whole, this is absolutely not the case.
Total war is a major can of worms that's cocked and aimed at the person opening it. The potential for unintended consequences is extreme.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #147,730
3/23/04 8:29:39 AM
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Re: Range of options
Let history come - it's clear that the idiots who purport to be statesmen on all sides couldn't lead a cat out of a pillowcase. A general war in the region is unavoidable I think. Let it happen while we have an advantage.
-drl
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Post #147,737
3/23/04 9:10:42 AM
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Careful what you ask for.
By various sources, the number of Muslims world wide is approaching 1.5 Billion (that's a "B"). You declare war on Islam and how many of those are going to remain "moderate"? All out war in the ME won't stay in the ME too long. And, as we have seen, these people are motivated by conviction. Conviction can't be bought. I'm not too sure at all that things would go the way you hope and/or expect. Unless of course, we use our nukes. But then, are we going to use them on ourselves when the war inevitably comes home?
Supporting all out war in the ME is just-plain-dumb.
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
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Post #147,743
3/23/04 9:23:58 AM
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Re: Careful what you ask for.
History is drawn out wars surrounded by productive periods. Let's get the war out of the way and get on with it. Mars is waiting.
-drl
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Post #147,818
3/23/04 11:38:28 AM
8/21/07 5:50:50 AM
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Hey, who can?
Lead a cat I mean. The guy who can do that, he gets my vote.
Java is a joke, only it's not funny.
--Alan Lovejoy
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Post #147,889
3/23/04 3:33:27 PM
3/23/04 3:33:50 PM
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Note what you said
"a general war in the region is unavoidable ... let it happen while we have the advantage"
Last time I looked, the US wasn't in the region... it's not even on any of the directly adjacent continents. What advantage? The only thing the US has is long supply lines.
Edit: Remember the wise words: "well, after the biggest blunder: never start a land war in Asia."
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by jake123
March 23, 2004, 03:33:50 PM EST
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Post #147,903
3/23/04 4:59:58 PM
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Re: Range of options
I think there is a difference between a calculated escalation that is deemed to be the only way to bring an issue to a head and the desire to avoid the unavoidable and thus continue with an essentially unacceptable status quo.
You are leaping way into the future, too far out for me to be able to agree or disagree with.
Palestine has been a cancer for close on 70 (years give or take). It is no better today that it was pre-Israel or in the period after delaration when the major wars were fought there.
One fact is irrefutable & that is that the *only* democracy in the ME is Israel. They seem to be the only people there with a will for a demoocracy but are struggling in quicksand with the surrounding governments.
Doug M
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Post #148,311
3/24/04 8:11:15 PM
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But you are forgetting 400 Israeli nukes.
[link|http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/|Israeli Nukes]. If there was a God, a series of spontaneous mushroom clouds in the Negev Desert making that area inhospitable for hundreds miles would be a glorious thing. Yeah, there would be some collateral damage. But, that's OK, peace would follow.
Alex
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something." -- last words of Pancho Villa (1877-1923)
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Post #148,359
3/24/04 9:38:42 PM
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move them into down town Jslem I would agree with you
ya wanta worsip there? put on yer glowsuit, bury ya when you come backup.
thanx,
bill
In Bush\ufffds America, fighting terrorism abroad is used as a pretext for vanquishing civil liberties at home. David Podvin
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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