Post #139,561
2/3/04 12:10:33 PM
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Just curious
...In addition to the inbred idiots and the whackos that think Jesus wants YOU to vote for George,... What does the above mean? Which whackos think Jesus wants us to vote for George? Nightowl >8#
"To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are." Eric Hoffer
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Post #139,565
2/3/04 12:27:48 PM
2/3/04 12:29:27 PM
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which whackos?
All sorts of 'em, toots. Chris Newman is 21, white, and a senior at Francis Marion University in Florence, S.C., just up the road from Darlington. North Carolina Sen. John Edwards pulled into Francis Marion for a campaign appearance last week. But as Edwards fired up a couple hundred supporters with his "two Americas" stump speech, Newman was picking up his baseball glove and heading off for practice. "I voted for Gore, but I'd probably vote for President Bush if I had to do it again," Newman says. "I like that he's a Christian and that's he's not afraid to admit it. I can relate to that."
And that's the problem for Democrats in the South this election year. While African-American voters may be solidly on the "Anybody but Bush" program, many white Southerners -- even some who voted for former Vice President Al Gore in 2000 -- can "relate" to Bush and plan to vote for him in November. They see in the president a man like themselves: a Christian who shares their political views on issues like abortion and homosexuality, and a red-white-and-blue patriot who stands with them in supporting the men and women in the U.S. military. ... You hear a prettier version of the same story on Sunday morning at the Forest Drive Baptist Church in Columbia. It's about half an hour before services are to begin, and a few women are sitting around a table in the immaculate church hall. Ask them what issues are important to them in 2004, and they say "issues involving people." Ask them if members of the church are mostly Republican or mostly Democrat, and they say they have absolutely no idea. But spend a few minutes with them, and their opinions and their allegiances become clear. They like the president -- they pray for the president -- because he's a man of God. "Without having a man who can hear from God, the country can't be run right," says Melissa Penney. Do any of the Democratic contenders hear from God? Penney says she doesn't know. "If they're Christians, they do," she says. [link|http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/02/02/south/index.html|http://www.salon.com.../south/index.html] I say: Apologize for being beastly about the Fort Sumter dustup (it was youthful hijinks; we overreacted) and let the Confederacy go, let them have the fucking Baptist theocracy they yearn for, or they'll poison our politics for another 150 years—in the unlikely event our sorry exercise in plutocratic anarchy survives that long. impatiently, [edit: typo]
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Edited by rcareaga
Feb. 3, 2004, 12:29:27 PM EST
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Post #139,619
2/3/04 3:29:56 PM
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Re: which whackos?
Yes, forcing it to stay was the worst mistake of all our history, because it ruined both countries.
-drl
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Post #139,567
2/3/04 12:34:47 PM
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Re: Just curious
Bush has a uncomfortably large following of fundimentalist types that support him largely due to his persistance in attempting to turn the country into a theocractic oligarchy. While I don't give a Norwegian Blue's fanny what they wish to believe, I may take exception to having their beliefs thrust upon me. My displeasure was probably reflected in my description of them. Referring to them as whackos was possibly a little mild for the Flames Forum.
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Post #139,571
2/3/04 12:52:47 PM
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Let me get this straight...
You and Rcareaga are saying that people think they should vote for Bush just because he's a Christian? That's nuts! Aren't any of the Democratic nominees Christian? And even if they weren't, it sounds to me like the only reason these people are supporting Bush is the abortion issue? What other religious things is Bush trying to implement? I must've missed this in all the hoo hah, cause all I remember about his platform is mostly foreign policy and backing his reasons for going to war.
Surely the Christians don't all think he was right to invade Iraq, do they?
Nightowl >8#
"To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are." Eric Hoffer
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Post #139,573
2/3/04 1:17:36 PM
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As straight as you like
I was suggesting that a subset of Christians are supporting Bush because he's as twisted as they are. This was not a blanket statement that all Christians support Bush. There are certainly more elements involved than the abortion rights issue as well. He's big on family, as long as the family has sex the same way he does; otherwise disenfranchise the lot of those disgusting things pretending to be citizens. He's also into faith-based initiatives. He appointed Ashcroft to guard the morals and behavior of the populace, no matter what they believe. Ashcroft is another fundi whack job. It may just be that fundi xians just consider him one of their own and that he will advance all their causes and beliefs. I never claimed that they were particularly bright.
I do not and sincerely hope never to, speak for Christians as a group, particularly what they think. You'd have to ask the Christians.
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Post #139,579
2/3/04 1:28:07 PM
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Ah okay, thanks
I didn't mean to imply "you" were speaking for all Christians, I just wondered what was meant by your statement in Flame, so I wanted to know what essentially, you had heard that was said about them.
I was unaware of some of the things you mentioned about Bush and moral values, thanks for clearing that up. Just curious, how is Ashcroft supposed to "guard" our values? That seems to be too big a job for one person. And what is he doing to carry out this task, do you know?
Nightowl >8#
"To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are." Eric Hoffer
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Post #139,583
2/3/04 1:41:56 PM
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Just that fact that his christianity get mentioned
is a problem. Remember 1960? Vote for Kennedy, he's Catholic....
When a voter, who is otherwise uninformed, is making their voting decision, it could (and most likely will) come down to "Christian == good" and the vote will go to the "christian".
Those who are informed will investigate the issues and vote ABB (anyone But Bush).
"All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord stands forever." 1 Peter 1:24-25
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Post #139,587
2/3/04 1:44:50 PM
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Exactly what I'm doing
Those who are informed will investigate the issues and vote ABB (anyone But Bush). Trying to investigate the issues, so I can make a smarter decision. And trust me, it will NOT be Bush. Nightowl >8#
"To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are." Eric Hoffer
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Post #139,588
2/3/04 1:47:22 PM
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Re: Ashcroft
Well, he's quite the expert regarding breasts and cover-ups. Just the man for the current administration and the issues that face us today.
-- Chris Altmann
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Post #139,598
2/3/04 1:55:26 PM
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Ashcroft...
Is the guiding authority of the Justice Department. He has considerable lattitude in selecting what gets enforced and what does not. Considering that he has a considerable reputation as a holy roller, that could be unpleasant for someone who does not share his agenda. He can make life difficult for those who don't share his divinely proclaimed values. He doesn't have to do it personally. He has the whole Justice Dept. working for him.
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Post #139,592
2/3/04 1:52:04 PM
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Some answers
The following figures are from chapter 7 of Kevin Phillips' book, American Dynasty.
In the 2000 election, Bush is estimated to have 84% of the vote from committed evangelists, 99% from clergy for Assemblies of God, 83% of Southern Baptist clergy, over 60% among observant Catholics, over 75% among Orthodox Jews, and even (judging from Florida figures) a significant majority of Muslims.
This in an election where Bush lost the popular vote.
In the 2000 election, fundamentalists, Pentecostals and evangelical Christians are estimated at 40% of George Bush's vote.
In 2000, an estimated 33% of the population never went to religious services. This segment voted Democratic by similarly lopsided margins.
Given the language used by Bush and appointments made, this political polarization along religious lines can be expected to increase in future years.
Cheers, Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not" - [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #139,603
2/3/04 2:13:55 PM
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Wow, that was really helpful
Thanks Ben, I honestly had no idea he was all that gung ho about religion, and was getting the Christian's support so much. He sure don't have mine, so I guess I'm surprised.
Nightowl >8#
"To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are." Eric Hoffer
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Post #139,616
2/3/04 3:16:00 PM
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Well, christian is a very broad term
ranging from people who agree with Osama bin Laden in all particulars except which person to listen to, to people who take "forgive and forget" very much to heart.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #139,721
2/4/04 10:12:43 AM
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Christian Support
I normally listen to the local christian radio station during drive time. I have had to stop because I was offended by the constant "praise and worship" of Bush. Quit listening to one DJ completely when I was lumped into the "radical left" who questions Shrub.
This is the first time I have ever heard such blatant political support from this station...
"All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord stands forever." 1 Peter 1:24-25
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Post #139,739
2/4/04 11:43:31 AM
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Wow
Makes me glad I stick to Christian CDs when I want to hear Christian music.
I honestly had no idea that he had such religious support in the country. Scary.
Nightowl >8#
"To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are." Eric Hoffer
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