Post #134,623
1/9/04 8:39:13 PM
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Two newborns die, but it's not terrorism.
Why? Because it's the IDF causing death and the victims are Palestinians. [link|http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/380975.html|Haaretz link]. The twin girls died one after the other. The first to die was the one who was born first, at the checkpoint. Several hours later came the death of her sister, who was born a few minutes after they finally left the checkpoint, and who managed to reach the hospital alive. One lived for less than an hour, the other for less than a day. The death certificate lists their ages as one day old and zero. One died in the arms of her grandmother, the other was carried in the arms of her aunt, while their mother was lying in an ambulance, freezing, trembling, exhausted and humiliated after what she had gone through at the IDF checkpoint near her village. o o o What did you feel? Lamis: "What did I feel? I should have given birth at home, and even died, rather than going to the checkpoint and begging the soldiers for hours to let us pass. I hope the Israelis will never taste what I tasted, and will not experience what I went through. And that they will explain to their sons who serve in the territories that they should be a little bit humane. That they should be human beings." IDF - Building Greater Israel one dead Palestinian at a time. Alex
There is nothing that can be said by mathematical symbols and relations which cannot also be said by words. The converse, however, is false. Much that can be and is said by words cannot successfully be put into equations, because it is nonsense. -- Clifford Ambrose Truesdell (1919-2000)
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Post #135,488
1/13/04 3:48:07 PM
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Re: Two newborns die, but it's not terrorism.
Nice, balanced article, of course. Shame the Palestinians started using women as suicide bombers, isn't it? And, of course, there's no time to relate what the Israeli soldiers did when the woman started giving birth or for the Israeli Army investigation - gotta get that scoop, right?
Choose a less biased source next time.
qts
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Post #135,549
1/13/04 8:43:01 PM
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actually that is the less biased source try Aretz Shiva
there the soldiers are treated as heros for not allowing 2 potential terrorists toget to the hospital :-)
thanx,
bill
same old crap, con artists ripping off fools. Ah, hell, Catholic Church it start off that way. They All do. Jesus probably had three walnut shells one pea, then he's dead and can't be questioned,
Gabriel Dupre
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #135,566
1/13/04 9:59:01 PM
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Re: biased source?
It's an (Jewish) Israeli newspaper not Al Jazeera! :)
Alex
The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch
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Post #135,547
1/13/04 8:41:15 PM
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interesting post but whose fault is it?
In my wifes village in Alaska 200 air miles from a hospital 3 weeks before due date, they fly to Bethel where they have a hospital. Its called planning. At seven months with twins she should have moved close to the hospital. If the PALS didnt continuesly hide and transfer terrorists with ambulances and arms hidden in womens clothes the IDF might have had more sympathy. Are the Soldiers at fault for not trusting whats going on? Absolutely they have the all blame. They can combine their guilt with their fear of getting blown up. Dont start with the Greater Israel or we will be having General Sherman comments all over the place.
thanx,
bill
same old crap, con artists ripping off fools. Ah, hell, Catholic Church it start off that way. They All do. Jesus probably had three walnut shells one pea, then he's dead and can't be questioned,
Gabriel Dupre
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #135,620
1/14/04 7:09:11 AM
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Here is your answer - just in time
[link|http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20040114/ts_nm/mideast_dc|Woman Suicide Bomber Kills 4 at Israel-Gaza Border]
--
"It\ufffds possible to build a reasonably prosperous society that invests in its people, doesn\ufffdt invade its neighbors, opposes Israel and stands up to America. (Just look at France.)"
-- James Lileks
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Post #135,782
1/14/04 7:33:44 PM
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How soon they forget.
Do you not remember the Hamas "cease-fire" after the Abbas, Sharon, Bush meeting in Jordan? Here, by cease-fire I mean no Hamas attacks or suicide bombers against Israelis. It went on for a while. What ended that "cease-fire" was assassinations of Hamas leadership with rockets from IDF helicopters. It was a well calculated move by Sharon. The peace summit was a Sharon sham. He plays the Palestinians like a virtuoso.
The use of suicide bombers is too me a stupid counterproductive approach. Ignoring for the moment the killing of Palestinians at 3+ times Israeli deaths, the daily humiliation of all Palestinians by the Israelis is equally so. These make sense only if the goal is perpetual conflict until the eventual annihilation of one or the other. Although driven by minorities on each side, these acts are quite deliberate in their aim. The way it's going, there will be a "one state solution". I hope then the civilized will eradicate the victor because the victor is a monster no less than any seen in history.
Alex
The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch
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Post #135,808
1/14/04 9:46:07 PM
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all of the victors or just the jewish ones
same old crap, con artists ripping off fools. Ah, hell, Catholic Church it start off that way. They All do. Jesus probably had three walnut shells one pea, then he's dead and can't be questioned,
Gabriel Dupre
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #135,812
1/14/04 9:51:11 PM
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All of them! It's a Solomonic choice. :)
Alex
The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch
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Post #135,817
1/14/04 10:04:56 PM
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I got an Idea!
Get a UN resolution that does not allow the IDF to stop Jews from rebuilding the temple. get bush to tell sharon he's dog meat if they interfere and drop AK47's every night at dusk. 2 years tops peace
thanx,
bill
same old crap, con artists ripping off fools. Ah, hell, Catholic Church it start off that way. They All do. Jesus probably had three walnut shells one pea, then he's dead and can't be questioned,
Gabriel Dupre
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #135,829
1/14/04 10:56:20 PM
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AK-47s for all?
Actually, all the Israelis are armed to the teeth already (thanks to US taxpayer). Anyway, slow as the process would be, it might work.
Can I have the Lumber Suppliers 'R Us concession for Israel and the Territories? :) That's provided coffins will be used and mass graves are not permitted.
Alex
The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch
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Post #135,830
1/14/04 11:28:40 PM
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The Economist on suicide bombers.
[link|http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=2329785|Here]: [...]
Suicide bombing is a corporate effort: in this respect, the closest historical analogy may be the kamikaze pilots who trained as a cadre to terrorise the American fleet in the Pacific in 1944-45. And suicide appeals to these groups principally because it is a good way to kill large numbers of people. Robert Pape, of the University of Chicago, calculates that between 1980 and 2001 13 people died on average in every suicide attack, whereas just one was killed in other terrorist incidents\ufffdexcluding September 11th, which would make the death ratio much starker. For those whose aim is maximum destruction, not just maximum publicity, it is the natural choice.
[...] It's a good read. Cheers, Scott.
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Post #135,833
1/15/04 12:11:39 AM
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Good article, thanks!
Alex
The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch
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Post #135,870
1/15/04 10:41:47 AM
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Thank you for changing topic
Yes, I was quite disgusted when IDF fired those missiles. No argument here.
On the other hand, suppose Al Quaeda announces a "cease-fire" tomorrow, and we have a nice conference with Egypt and Saudi Arabia to confirm the fact. Should we refrain from striking bin Laden if his location becomes known?
Morally, we should. But in reality, I just don't see it happening.
--
"It\ufffds possible to build a reasonably prosperous society that invests in its people, doesn\ufffdt invade its neighbors, opposes Israel and stands up to America. (Just look at France.)"
-- James Lileks
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Post #135,886
1/15/04 11:54:04 AM
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Re: But in reality, I just don't see it happening.
At the end of WW-II, the Japanese Emperor, not exactly a bystander, was left in place. That saved a lot of lives on both sides. There's no question it's very difficult to do.
Alex
The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch
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