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New You're wrong about dark matter
Dark matter is a stop-gap to account for the incomplete theory of gravity. When the correct theory of gravity is widely known, the need for dark matter will go away.

No. Dark matter is matter that isn't putting out a lot of light and so is hard to spot and account for. There is no question that dark matter is out there, heck we are standing on some right now, and no amount of knowledge about gravity will ever change that. Some of it we can account for. For instance we can measure how many neutrinos we spot hitting us, and subtract out the ones that might be from the Sun, and get an idea of the density of neutrinos out there. Also we can estimate the amounts of normal matter in our galaxy because we have a pretty good idea of the structure of the local galaxy and we can see from speeds and radius of curvature what the acceleration should be, and then estimate how much weight has to be there that we can't see.

But a lot of forms of dark matter we don't know about. How empty is it, really, between the galaxies? Are there exotic types of dark matter that we haven't accounted for?

Now you're right that better theories would limit how much speculation about dark matter goes on because people want to reach certain magical numbers that fit specific cosmological theories. It is also obvious that our current theories will some day seem as ludicrous as we view the comet theories put forth by Newton's successor. (Note that I don't include the flat earth theory that Norm keeps blathering about because I know enough history to know that nobody believed that in Columbus' day - in fact the premise on which Columbus sailed was just plain wrong.)

But we know that dark matter really is out there, even though we can't see it.

Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
New Re: You're wrong about dark matter
I don't mean "unseen" or "unaccounted for" - I mean "exotic" dark matter, matter that doesn't show up other than in cosmological speculations (superpartners that don't exist, special open-ended strings that don't exist, etc.)

IOW I don't doubt that the observations are interesting, just that the interpretation is strangely non-scientific. And in any case, there is always Markarian 205 hanging above. Non-recessional redshift would change everything, but everyone is convinced it can't happen on a local level. Needless to say, intepretation of redshifts is critical to rotation studies.

-drl
New dark matter is to physicists
what the ethers were to bacteria. They know something is there but put a catchall into describing the symtoms.
thanx,
bill
stick a spork in it.

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Re: dark matter is to physicists
That's accurate, but DM is more like the homuncular idea of birth.
-drl
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         Borrowed a lot from the Traveller RPG - (orion) - (106)
             Of all the sources of inspiration... - (pwhysall) - (8)
                 Importance of RPGs - (orion) - (7)
                     LOTR inspired by AD&D? - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                         No, the other way around - (jake123) - (1)
                             Thanks for the clarification - (orion)
                     Nothing you say - (pwhysall) - (3)
                         The great thing - (JayMehaffey)
                         Right... - (bepatient)
                         /me wonders what pwhysall would say about Grognards... - (inthane-chan)
             There is little that is original in that sort of thing. - (static) - (96)
                 Drives - (orion) - (95)
                     Re: Drives - (deSitter) - (74)
                         What once was fiction, can become fact. - (orion) - (73)
                             very good point - (SpiceWare) - (6)
                                 We would be nowhere - (deSitter) - (5)
                                     Sometimes what we know is a lie - (orion) - (4)
                                         Re: Sometimes what we know is a lie - (deSitter) - (3)
                                             Prove the universe - (orion) - (2)
                                                 Re: Prove the universe - (deSitter) - (1)
                                                     Chedar or Swiss? :) -NT - (orion)
                             Nope - essential difference - (deSitter) - (65)
                                 We don't know what is and what is not - (orion) - (60)
                                     Wrong - (deSitter) - (4)
                                         My Instructor has a PHD - (orion) - (3)
                                             That doesn't exclude him from being an idiot, Norm. - (pwhysall) - (2)
                                                 Explain to me - (orion) - (1)
                                                     Re: Explain to me - (deSitter)
                                     That's still wishful thinking. - (pwhysall) - (54)
                                         They don't exist, yet - (orion) - (53)
                                             Re: They don't exist, yet - (deSitter) - (52)
                                                 Your thinking is limited - (orion) - (51)
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                                                         Re: Your thinking is limited - (orion) - (49)
                                                             Re: Your thinking is limited - (deSitter) - (48)
                                                                 Time is relative - (orion) - (47)
                                                                     Re: Time is relative - (deSitter) - (46)
                                                                         So this proof - (orion) - (45)
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                                                                                 Other dimensions - (orion) - (43)
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                                                                                         Unless you moved out of the sphere of the 3rd dimension - (orion) - (41)
                                                                                             Language and math are endless fun, no? - (Ashton) - (40)
                                                                                                 The point you have missed - (orion) - (37)
                                                                                                     Re: The point you have missed - (deSitter) - (35)
                                                                                                         I usually ignore things that don't make sense - (orion) - (34)
                                                                                                             make sense out of things you can't ignore -NT - (deSitter)
                                                                                                             lets review taking a shower - (boxley) - (32)
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                                                                                                                     Re: Still confused - (deSitter) - (1)
                                                                                                                         Funny that you mention God - (orion)
                                                                                                                     Okay you asked for it :-) - (boxley) - (27)
                                                                                                                         Still doesn't answer my questions - (orion) - (26)
                                                                                                                             stopped showering for 2 weeks and find out - (boxley) - (25)
                                                                                                                                 Observable and measurable - (orion) - (24)
                                                                                                                                     Mu - (pwhysall) - (22)
                                                                                                                                         More like - (orion) - (21)
                                                                                                                                             Re: More like - (deSitter) - (20)
                                                                                                                                                 Somewhat - (orion) - (15)
                                                                                                                                                     Internet effect? - (deSitter) - (14)
                                                                                                                                                         You mean NASA is wrong? - (orion) - (13)
                                                                                                                                                             What is sacred about NASA? - (deSitter) - (11)
                                                                                                                                                                 Newtonian gravity - (orion) - (10)
                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Newtonian gravity - (deSitter) - (9)
                                                                                                                                                                         As I said before - (orion) - (8)
                                                                                                                                                                             Hopefully at your level - (ben_tilly) - (7)
                                                                                                                                                                                 Now that is what I wanted to see - (orion) - (6)
                                                                                                                                                                                     "If its on the Internet, it must be true!" - (deSitter) - (5)
                                                                                                                                                                                         All I wanted was a reference or citation - (orion) - (4)
                                                                                                                                                                                             Bull - (deSitter) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                                                                 Why did I think about what Ben said? - (orion)
                                                                                                                                                                                                 You are both right - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                                                     I agree, end of discussion - (orion)
                                                                                                                                                             Newton was wrong. - (admin)
                                                                                                                                                 You're wrong about dark matter - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                     Re: You're wrong about dark matter - (deSitter)
                                                                                                                                                     dark matter is to physicists - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                         Re: dark matter is to physicists - (deSitter)
                                                                                                                                     can show some gravity effect== observable -NT - (boxley)
                                                                                                                     ICLRPD:Why isn't there a shower in other dimensions? (new thread) - (Arkadiy)
                                                                                                     Another point - (deSitter)
                                                                                                 Are you denying the existence of imaginary numbers? - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                                                                                     Nah.. he's imagining the number of existences. -NT - (Ashton)
                                 Are other things impossible too? - (Arkadiy) - (3)
                                     Re: Are other things impossible too? - (deSitter) - (1)
                                         Wow. - (Arkadiy)
                                     there is 3 ways to defeat gravity - (boxley)
                     My Favorite - (altmann) - (1)
                         Hey - that's more original than usual. - (static)
                     Funny how you can remember - (Ashton) - (2)
                         And funny how you can find the time... (new thread) - (inthane-chan)
                         My brain works that way - (orion)
                     Clue - (pwhysall) - (4)
                         I never said it was real - (orion) - (3)
                             No He Didn't - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                 Looks like he had something to do with it - (orion)
                             No - (altmann)
                     You'll like this link. - (static)
                     Why parsecs? - (pwhysall) - (6)
                         Because Marc W. Miller said so in 1975 - (orion) - (5)
                             I played a lot of Traveller back in the day - (jake123) - (4)
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                                     Re: I played a lot of Traveller back in the day - (deSitter) - (2)
                                         Oh yes - (orion) - (1)
                                             Re: Oh yes - (deSitter)
                     forgot one, ya smeghead - (SpiceWare) - (1)
                         How could I forget that one? - (orion)
         You have to understand... - (FuManChu) - (4)
             1978 series - (orion) - (3)
                 Reciprocal burst - (altmann) - (2)
                     Noboy picked up on my favorite - (drewk) - (1)
                         Scorpie's Neuro Clone Chip - (orion)
         compare 2001 - (deSitter)

Well, I should say!
115 ms