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New An indication of how powerful US orbiting space cameras are
[link|http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/world/china/jiuquan-imagery.htm|http://www.globalsec...uquan-imagery.htm]

Above link shows a set of images of the Chinese space center at Jiuquan.

The images are so precise & clear one could almost do an interview of the people. :-)

Doug M
Expand Edited by dmarker Oct. 14, 2003, 04:47:06 PM EDT
New I'm sure the stuff they don't let you see . .
. . is even better, but it still hasn't helped capture Osama or Sadam. The best images and the best info in the world is useless in the hands of beaurocrats.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Damn, Hexixincun is about 6 kilometer to the west....
that's a little close to the rocket in my opinion.

New Re: An indication of how powerful US orbiting space cameras
There seems to be an assumption that with enough tech, you could count the hairs on somebody's big toe. As with ground-based astronomical telescopes, the two things at work to ruin the image are atmospheric refraction and aperture. The bigger the aperture, the better the theoretical resolution, but the more likely a convection cell in the atmosphere will blur the image. In practice, resolution of a few arcseconds is the best that can be achieved on all but the most exceptional days. The theoretical limit is defined by the wave nature of light (diffraction) but is rarely achieved directly.

Even so, let's assume these spy satellites have diffraction-limited optics and are looking down through a vacuum. Let's assume a 20-inch objective. Dawe's rule states that the theoretical resolution is

4.6/20 = about 1/4 arcsecond

Now, what does this translate into in terms of sizes of things on the ground? Assuming a vertical lookdown from low orbit (150 miles), we have

Circumference of circle centered on the satellite = 2 * pi * 150 miles = 5 million inches

1/4 arcsecond = 1 5 millionth part of a circle

So in theory, things as small as an inch across can be seen from 150 miles up with a perfect 20 inch telescope with no distortion from the atmosphere.

In practice, this is probably more like half a foot. Pretty good, but not enough to read the paper.
-drl
New Why 20"?
Why did you pick 20" in your example? That's probably on the small end of mirror sizes for this application.

The Hubble Space telescope's mirror is [link|http://www.coseti.org/9008-065.htm|2.4 m in diameter]. It was probably exceeded in resolution by several [link|http://users.ox.ac.uk/~daveh/Space/Military/milspace_recon.html|military satellites]. That page claims resolutions as small as less than 10 cm.

[link|http://www.digitalglobe.com/products/standard.shtml|Digital Globe] is claiming that they have 60 cm/2 foot resolution from their [link|http://spaceflightnow.com/delta/d288/011015quickbird.html|Quickbird] satellite. It claims to be the highest resolution commercial imagery satellite available.

Your points about atmospheric turbulence, etc., are well taken, though there are [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=80136|ways] to get around some of them. ;-)

Being able to count toe hairs from 150 miles up probably isn't feasible anytime soon though, as you rightly point out. :-)

Cheers,
Scott.
New Re: Why 20"?
1) 10 cm = 4 inches :)

2) The Hubble would not work if pointed at Earth. It's extremely sensitive to infrared radiation. Plus differential heating would ruin the performance.

3) 20in is a *big* telescope. I'm assuming military satellites use Maksutov-type closed-end optics. Putting up, say, a 40in telescope would be an enormous undertaking on the level of the Hubble scope. I doubt a corrector plate that big, that did not go geometrically apeshit when moving in and out of the Earth's shadow, could be made.
-drl
New So don't go in the Earth's shadow
A polar orbit covers the whole Earth eventually, and keeps you in a constant orientation vs the Sun.

Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
New Is that a technical term?
... go geometrically apeshit ...
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New And they're unmanned!
Why, some of them are even [link|http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/planetearth/quickbird_ready_011102.html|in the private sector!]

So who needs NASA again?
----------------------------------------------------------------
DEAL WITH IT.
Compromise is for suckers. Seeking a middle ground is what led to 9/11.
"I do not want to be admired by scumbags and liars and wife beaters. I want to be admired by good and decent, intelligent and just people, and in order to achieve this I need to do things that make me despised by their opposites." - Bill Whittle
Never mind all the mass graves. Where's the nerve gas?
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
New Actually it's not a NASA issue anymore anyway....
none of the spy satellites are carried on the Shuttle anymore.

All DOD work goes through Cape Canaveral (Air Force side) - and they use the Atlas, Titan and Delta rockets.
New Now with Ruski engines...
[link|http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0309/24rd180/|http://spaceflightno...ws/n0309/24rd180/]

These are the direct descendants of the motors developed for the Soviet moonshot. The originals were ordered destroyed, but a naughty scientist just sealed the lab instead. They were rediscovered sometime in the 90's. So the leading edge tech the article mentions is 40 years old.
New Marlowe Behind Unmanning of Privates
Hmmm... that rings a bell!

Desacrated Hermes suggest reckless contempt for civic values at highest government levels.

Dark omens taint launch of military expedition to faraway land of fabulous wealth. Salt Mine stocks up 20% in Syracuse bourse.

"Those whom the Gods would ruin they first make mad"
I'm not a complete idiot -- some parts are missing
New The Nintendo Eloi are always with us..
     An indication of how powerful US orbiting space cameras are - (dmarker) - (12)
         I'm sure the stuff they don't let you see . . - (Andrew Grygus)
         Damn, Hexixincun is about 6 kilometer to the west.... - (Simon_Jester)
         Re: An indication of how powerful US orbiting space cameras - (deSitter) - (4)
             Why 20"? - (Another Scott) - (3)
                 Re: Why 20"? - (deSitter) - (2)
                     So don't go in the Earth's shadow - (ben_tilly)
                     Is that a technical term? - (drewk)
         And they're unmanned! - (marlowe) - (4)
             Actually it's not a NASA issue anymore anyway.... - (Simon_Jester) - (1)
                 Now with Ruski engines... - (scoenye)
             Marlowe Behind Unmanning of Privates - (GBert) - (1)
                 The Nintendo Eloi are always with us.. -NT - (Ashton)

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