Post #120,974
10/12/03 8:47:08 AM
10/12/03 8:51:41 AM
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And we know who did it: a bunch of soldiers
[link|http://cerdip.motime.com/1064959200|Astroturf with roots?]
Excerpt:
Option 4, which I now think is most likely, considering the words buried in the guts of the article (I had to read it over and over again until I got the real sense of the story):
"Sgt. Christopher Shelton, who signed a letter that ran in the Snohomish Herald, said Friday that his platoon sergeant had distributed the letter and asked soldiers for the names of their hometown newspapers. Soldiers were asked to sign the letter if they agreed with it, said Shelton, whose shoulder was wounded during an ambush earlier this year.
"Everything it said is dead accurate. We've done a really good job," he said by phone from Italy, where he was preparing to return to Iraq.
Sgt. Todd Oliver, a spokesman for the 173rd Airborne Brigade, which counts the 503rd as one of its units, said he was told a soldier wrote the letter, but he didn't know who. He said the brigade's public affairs unit was not involved.
"When he asked other soldiers in his unit to sign it, they did," Oliver explained in an e-mail response to a GNS inquiry. "Someone, somewhere along the way, took it upon themselves to mail it to the various editors of newspapers across the country." "
So there it is - it was a soldier's initiative, done in the field. However the way the story is written in the Olympian by the Gannet guy, Ledyard King, it's been twisted into something nefarious. It sure got my blood up for a while. The soldiers themselves told the GNS people what they had done, so why the blow-up photo comparison of letters at the start of the article? What are they expecting to prove with that ? There is nothing to prove, since the definitive information was presented by the soldiers themselves. IMHO, either the paper or the writer was trying to convey the impression of catching someone out, and what better way to do then than a dramatic "scientific" comparison of the letters.
I say:
Is it astroturf if it starts at the grassroots level?
I think this will have its own entry in my Iraq Lies page, as soon as the dust settles a bit.
---------------------------------------------------------------- DEAL WITH IT. Compromise is for suckers. Seeking a middle ground is what led to 9/11. "I do not want to be admired by scumbags and liars and wife beaters. I want to be admired by good and decent, intelligent and just people, and in order to achieve this I need to do things that make me despised by their opposites." - Bill Whittle Never mind all the mass graves. Where's the nerve gas? [link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
Edited by marlowe
Oct. 12, 2003, 08:51:41 AM EDT
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Post #121,023
10/12/03 11:48:20 PM
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Is it astroturf if it comes down the chain of command?
--\r\n Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n [link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n [link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n \r\n Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
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Post #121,032
10/13/03 8:28:47 AM
10/13/03 9:41:59 AM
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Down the chain of command? From a platoon sergeant?
That's stretching the point more than a bit, don'cha think?
And the fact reamins, those who went along say they meant it. It's called SINCERITY. And that is NOT astroturf.
Shame on you. Our soldiers in Iraq have a right to disagree with you, and to express that disagreement, singularly, or in unison. It's called free speech, and there's nothing you can do about it.
The right to dissent cuts both ways.
[Silly me. Can't tell a platoon sergeant from a staff sergeant.]
---------------------------------------------------------------- DEAL WITH IT. Compromise is for suckers. Seeking a middle ground is what led to 9/11. "I do not want to be admired by scumbags and liars and wife beaters. I want to be admired by good and decent, intelligent and just people, and in order to achieve this I need to do things that make me despised by their opposites." - Bill Whittle Never mind all the mass graves. Where's the nerve gas? [link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
Edited by marlowe
Oct. 13, 2003, 09:41:59 AM EDT
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Post #121,181
10/14/03 12:56:57 PM
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Does a Lt. Col count?
She was right. Her son didn't write the letter. In an e-mail to ABCNEWS today, the commander of the battalion, Lt. Col. Dominic Caraccilo, said the "letter-writing initiative" was all his idea.
Caraccilo said he circulated the form letter to his soldiers to give them "an opportunity to let their respective hometowns know what they are accomplishing here in Kirkuk. As you might expect, they are working at an extremely fast pace and getting the good news back home is not always easy. We thought it would be a good idea to encapsulate what we as a battalion have accomplished since arriving Iraq and share that pride with people back home."
Caraccilo wrote that his staff drafted the letter, he edited it and reviewed it and then offered it to the soldiers. "Every soldier who signed that letter did so after a careful read," he said. "Some, who could find the time, decided to send their own versions, while others chose not to take part in the initiative."
Caraccilo was unapologetic, saying that the letter "perfectly reflects what each of these brave soldiers has and continues to accomplish on the ground."
[link|http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/World/iraq031013_letters-1.html| ABC News ]
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Post #121,200
10/14/03 4:29:32 PM
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Re: Does a Lt. Col count?
Still planning to give this one a slot on your "Iraq Lies page," Little Phil, or shall we pretend it never happened?
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
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Post #121,283
10/15/03 10:30:38 AM
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No, it still gets a slot.
My main point remains valid, and yours remains bogus.
It's not astroturf if it's sincere. But what do you know about sincerity? "Sincere" is just a word to such as you.
---------------------------------------------------------------- DEAL WITH IT. Compromise is for suckers. Seeking a middle ground is what led to 9/11. "I do not want to be admired by scumbags and liars and wife beaters. I want to be admired by good and decent, intelligent and just people, and in order to achieve this I need to do things that make me despised by their opposites." - Bill Whittle Never mind all the mass graves. Where's the nerve gas? [link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
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Post #121,308
10/15/03 1:01:47 PM
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Prove sincerity
That is, prove the state of another's mind.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #121,310
10/15/03 1:07:13 PM
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Deliciously bogus, Phil. Of a piece w/the rest of you.
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Post #121,338
10/15/03 5:02:54 PM
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Sincere like this?
"You are to send this Sincere letter that I and my senior staff have drafted back to your hometown paper. This is a Sincere order!"
jb4 "There are two ways for you to have lower Prescription-drug costs. One is you could hire Rush Limbaugh's housekeeper ... or you can elect me President." John Kerry
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Post #121,265
10/15/03 8:32:39 AM
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Follow-up from USA - it was 500 letters....
Army officials revealed Tuesday that 500 identical form letters were sent to newspapers across the country with different signatures. They said the mass mailing was the wrong way of getting the message out, but they didn't know whether the commander would be disciplined.
[...]
MacDonald said no one was forced to sign the letter, though most did. At least one soldier contacted by Gannett News Service said he never signed the letter that appeared in his hometown newspaper in Charleston, W.Va. Several parents also said they knew their sons had not written the letters that appeared in local newspapers. The letter appeared in at least a dozen newspapers, according to a Gannett News Service search.
[link|http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-10-14-letters-usat_x.htm| USA Today ] Grassroots form letter...uh, yeah, cough.
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Post #121,309
10/15/03 1:03:34 PM
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No, they're sincere! Marlowe said so!
After all, he's got the inside track on people's mental states: behaviour be damned.
Even the one by the guy that said he never signed such a letter. But really, he was sincere, because Little Phil's all-seeing eye knows that he meant what he didn't (actually) say.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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