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New Bush demonstrates inability to learn from past wrt Cuba
His solution - find and punish American tourists.

[link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8163-2003Oct10.html|http://www.washingto...63-2003Oct10.html]


President Bush announced yesterday that his administration will work harder to identify and punish Americans who visit Cuba in violation of U.S. laws, whether they travel from the United States or through a third country.

Such travel only helps "prop up the dictator and his cronies," Bush said, referring to Cuban President Fidel Castro. "Clearly, the Castro regime will not change by its own choice, but Cuba must change".


Sure - but this is the same strategy we've been doggedly following for OVER 40 YEARS and maybe you haven't noticed but ITS NOT FUCKING WORKING!


Bush also established a government committee to plan for Cuba's post-Castro future, naming Secretary of State Colin L. Powell and Housing and Urban Development Secretary Mel R. Martinez as co-chairmen. He said the administration will allow more Cubans to emigrate and will expand the U.S. distribution of radios and reading material in Cuba.

The measures, Bush said, are "only the beginning of a more robust effort to break through to the Cuban people."


You want to break through to the Cuban people? Why don't you send them some pharmaceuticals and maybe a little FOOD. Also welcome would be shipments of building supplies, soap, and cooking oil. Because apart from crumbling infrastructure and chronic shortages, Cuba is a true gem of a country. In fact, I'd suggest importing Cuban administrators to teach our government how to provide universal education and health care with practically nothing.


In a Congress largely united on the desirability of transforming Cuba but seriously divided about how to achieve it, Bush's announcement drew calls for a follow-through from some quarters, but others, who belong to a bipartisan majority that favors more engagement after a 41-year-old embargo, criticized it.

"For more than 40 years now, our Cuba policy has had the same effect as beating our head against a wall. By tightening enforcement of the travel ban, we will essentially just be beating it harder," said Rep. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.).

"At some point," Flake continued, "we need to concede that our current approach has failed and try something new."
...
Dagoberto Rodriguez, head of the Cuban Interests Section in Washington, spoke out against U.S. policy and the embargo at a news conference on Thursday. He called on the U.S. government to "stop acting like a lawless cowboy" and "stop making the policy toward Cuba a circus led by the Miami mafia."

The travel ban is a particularly sensitive subject. Supporters say that foreign visitors help perpetuate Castro's rule, but opponents counter that the presence of tourists undermines the Cuban leader by enriching ordinary Cubans culturally and financially.


This is absolutely true. Cuba must be (and can be) modernized gently. My plan would include initially opening it up for limited tourism and trade and providing foreign aid in food, medical supplies, and building supplies. At the same time locking out the mega corps for awhile. Micro-mortgages will allow Cubans to establish small businesses to serve the tourists as tourism expands and in general the economy establishes itself.


Bush said he had instructed the Department of Homeland Security to increase the questioning and inspection of travelers and shipments between Cuba and the United States. He also said the government will "target" people who travel to Cuba through third countries and those who reach Cuba illegally on private boats.

The travel crackdown, Bush said, will also weaken Cuba's prostitution trade. He called the business "a modern form of slavery which is encouraged by the Cuban government."


This is a blatant lie. Cuban prostitution is strongly and actively discouraged - to the point of forbidding Cubans to foreigner's hotel rooms in major hotels in Havana. Its quite difficult to come up with a private meeting place if you do get lucky at the disco. Of course, that doesn't keep it from being rampant.

Furthermore, prostitution works against the Castro regime - apart from being embarrassing, the money goes directly into the pockets of citizens and then into the black market to buy foreign goods. Typically electronics (CD players/TVs/etc cost about 10% more there than they do here). The average Cuban makes $6-10 per MONTH. This means that without foreign income, it will take 2-3 years to get a CD player or TV (not that there's anything much to watch on).

There are also those Miami Cubans sending dollars and goods home - dwarfing the contribution by american tourists into statistical noise.

What Shrub and company don't quite realize is that the embargo suits Castro very well and is a key force keeping him in power. Brer Rabbit Lives!







In Java, you can't escape the creepy feeling.

     --James Gosling
New Just working the election
The Cuban-Americans where Bush's strong point in Florida in the last election and he wants to secure their vote this time also.

Bush will probably do quite a bit of pandering to groups who's vote can be easily bought over the next few months. He needs to do the more blatent stuff now because it will look bad if he does it too close to the election.

Jay
New The second most appalling common denominator of all
these Neoconmen - is their Windoze-grade utter lack of any genuine Imagination; the Most Appalling aspect of all such loonies as I've encountered is, a corresponding absence of any sense of humour. These assholes often don't even realize when they are being lampooned.. with a straight face.

(Imagine the self-isolation -immolation?- necessary before a man orders that statues be covered, lest these offend his 'sensibilities'.) .. What more need be said about such a one?

We've turned the US over to Just This sort of retard sanctimonious human detritus for a whole THREE FUCKING years and counting.
New I heard that on PRN
Paraphrased "these dollars paid to the luxury hotels only allow the hard currency to be paid to the dictator and his cronies while the worker peons get paid in worthless pesos"

I thought ALRIGHT HE SEES THE LIGHT, HE IS GOING AFTER DISNEY!!!
Shit castro,
thanx,
bill
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New One huge problem with your plan.
We're not in a position to implement it. We don't run Cuba. Castro does. And he *likes* his people starving. Less energy for revolt that way. Plus he can blame America for not, um, running the country, or something.

Now if we were to intervene and overthrow Castro, then we might be in a position to do all those things you suggest, much as we are now doing in Iraq. But until then, we have to settle for pettier actions, like bugging tourists.

You can have it either way you want it, but you can't have it both ways.

Me, I'd put Castro on the list of shitty regimes to squash. Not very high on the list, though. Castro doesn't seem to be sponsoring terrorism or acquiring nukes. Not since that missile crisis a few decades back.

(Rep. Jeff Flake - is that his real name?)
----------------------------------------------------------------
DEAL WITH IT.
Compromise is for suckers. Seeking a middle ground is what led to 9/11.
"I do not want to be admired by scumbags and liars and wife beaters. I want to be admired by good and decent, intelligent and just people, and in order to achieve this I need to do things that make me despised by their opposites." - Bill Whittle
Never mind all the mass graves. Where's the nerve gas?
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
New No problem
all you have to do is drop the blockade. As you mention - he likes the blockade. So why is Bush helping him?




In Java, you can't escape the creepy feeling.

     --James Gosling
New I can see you haven't thought this through. At all.
Dropping the blockade just gives Castro more resources for himself. Just like that oil-for-food helped Saddam build more palaces and bunkers while his victims still starved. Anything that goes into Cuba through Castro-approved channels goes straight to Castro. That's how such a regime works.

You can't deal personally with the subjects of a Stalinist economy. You can't sell them anything, and you can't give them anything. It's not allowed.

Assuming you're at all sincere in wanting to help the common people of Cuba, the real blockade you need out of the way is the Castro regime. He's blockading the people. All our blockade does is to blockade Castro.

Now I'm all for lifting the blockade that is Castro if you are. And then the other blockade won't be needed anymore. Just like we had the sanctions against Iraq lifted after Saddam was gone - overcoming a slightly reluctant UN Security Council - we'll do with Cuba. But first things first.
----------------------------------------------------------------
DEAL WITH IT.
Compromise is for suckers. Seeking a middle ground is what led to 9/11.
"I do not want to be admired by scumbags and liars and wife beaters. I want to be admired by good and decent, intelligent and just people, and in order to achieve this I need to do things that make me despised by their opposites." - Bill Whittle
Never mind all the mass graves. Where's the nerve gas?
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
New More than you have I'm sure
I wandered around that country for 3 weeks trying to understand what's going on.

Dropping the blockade just gives Castro more resources for himself. Just like that oil-for-food helped Saddam build more palaces and bunkers while his victims still starved. Anything that goes into Cuba through Castro-approved channels goes straight to Castro.


The oil for food program was really oil for money. We ought to be sending food, medical supplies, and building supplies. There are whole communities painted all one color because a bulk shipment of paint came in once. Its that bad.

41 years of blockade doesn't work. Time to establish trade relations. China is no better for human rights (and in fact they were showing very old Chinese communist propaganda films with english subtitles on the TV in my hotel room in Havana) but we manage to do quite a lot of trade there.

Opening trade with Cuba will allow us to exert influence. At the moment there is no reasoning with Castro as he is certain (and correct) that the US just wants to kill him. Castro will not live much longer - it would be best to open trade, work with him and begin preparing for the post-Castro years. At this point there will be an opportunity to remake Cuban government, but only if we aren't pouting outside the door.

Certainly nothing can be solved without communication. The Bush plan amounts to sitting on your thumb hoping something will get better even though this hasn't worked in 41 years.



In Java, you can't escape the creepy feeling.

     --James Gosling
New We've got him just where we want him
Oh ye of little faith! It's working just fine -- just like we wanted it to. According to our calculations, Castro will be calling it quits within 15 years, provided we don't stop now.

Giovanni
I'm not a complete idiot -- some parts are missing
New It hasn't worked yet.
Let's do it some more!
-----------------------------------------
It is much harder to be a liberal than a conservative. Why?
Because it is easier to give someone the finger than it is to give them a helping hand.
Mike Royko
     Bush demonstrates inability to learn from past wrt Cuba - (tuberculosis) - (9)
         Just working the election - (JayMehaffey)
         The second most appalling common denominator of all - (Ashton)
         I heard that on PRN - (boxley)
         One huge problem with your plan. - (marlowe) - (5)
             No problem - (tuberculosis) - (4)
                 I can see you haven't thought this through. At all. - (marlowe) - (3)
                     More than you have I'm sure - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                         We've got him just where we want him - (GBert)
                         It hasn't worked yet. - (Silverlock)

No, Mr. Bond! I expect you to die!
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