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New So who ARE they bought and paid for?
Whatever you can say about the Republicans, they don't appear to be bought and paid for by the elite, be it Wall Street or Hollywood.


Can you say "Big Business"? I knew you could...
jb4
Boy I'd like to see those words on a PR banner behind [Treasury Secretary John] Snow at the podium:
Jobs and Growth: Just Wait.

John J. Andrew, unemployed programmer; see jobforjohn.com
New Re: So who ARE they bought and paid for?
Here's an [link|http://www.poppyware.com/bowditch/maps/elections/images/voting_history_all.gif|image] for your viewing pleasure.

In land mass...republican party speaks to more people...however the democrats control the major urban populations.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New BZZZZT! Sorry wrong answer....
In land mass...republican party speaks to more people...


No, we're sorry...the correct answer is; "In land mass...republican party speaks to more land mass"...no people. Johny, what parting gifts do we have for the contestant?

C'mon Bill...didn't we dispens with that hareng rouge some 3 years ago?

[Edit: fixed number on the translation]
jb4
Boy I'd like to see those words on a PR banner behind [Treasury Secretary John] Snow at the podium:
Jobs and Growth: Just Wait.

John J. Andrew, unemployed programmer; see jobforjohn.com
Expand Edited by jb4 Oct. 1, 2003, 06:21:44 PM EDT
New Ah...la poisson rouge!
Its worth a shot every once in a while.

And I wouldn't consider it "dispensed of". While I may not have stated it correctly...policies that benefit the larger number of states (and localities) and their economies may, in the end, be more beneficial to the country as a whole than to pander to the densely populated mass.

The overall point of the map, though...was to show that support of the party is rather pervasive...even if not understood (or adequately represented) on this board :-)
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Folie \ufffd deux; folie \ufffd millon___dream stuff about 'riches'
New It is a problem
Not too sure about the US numbers, but up here...

Most of the population in Canada lives in urban centres. Between Montreal and environs, the Golden Horseshoe (Toronto to Hamilton along Lake Ontario), and Vancouver, you're looking at ~10 million out of a population of ~30 million. If you start adding in smaller centers like Winter^R^R^Rnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton, Ville de Quebec, and Halifax, you quickly run up over 50% of the population. So, how much weight should be given to the people that live in these cities vs the people that live in the rest of the country (which is vast and largely empty)? Weighing it strictly by population means that rural concerns will simply not be heard, but the current situation where a rural vote can be weighted up to eight times more heavily than an urban vote is not just.

The concerns are very different. For example, look at gun control. Of course, our attitudes about that sort of thing are quite different up here; there is no constitutional right to bear arms, and to be blunt, if you were a person who habitually carried a gun people would look at you funny. However, the kind of gun control regime that is appropriate for a large urban centre like Montreal or Toronto is hardly appropriate for Red Deer, Alberta. Complicating the issue is the problem of personal arms (ie- handguns) being smuggled from the US into Canada's major urban centres (which I think is already a much greater problem than any weed that might go the other way if we do legalise it up here).

Personally, I think the right thing to do is to devolve gun control to the municipality... however, under our constitution, it is firmly a federal responsibility. One possible way to handle that would be to create law that sets out several regimes, scaling from a useful minimum with loose restrictions on long guns (shotguns, rifles) with two or three levels up to a useful maximum requiring ironclad regulation, registration, and restriction on all firearms, and let the municipality decide which level they want to have. Under this model, there would be a minimum level of responsibility for dealing with firearms that would apply across the country, and municipalities could optionally select higher degrees of control (and the infrastructure to back them up) according to their particular context.

That's one area where the cities with their large population base are running over the concerns of the countryside. OTOH, let's take a look at the agricultural lobby, and what the policies that they have in place do to the price of food.

Milk and Eggs are handled via provincial marketing boards, that sell quotas to farmers. Farmers can buy and sell quotas among themselves as well. These quotas are firm; if a farm produces more than its quota, that excess must be destroyed, and certainly cannot be purchased by anyone. This serves to restrict supply, keeping prices high (eg- a typical price for a dozen eggs is ~2.50 and four litres of milk typically costs ~4.25). This allows farmers a handsome profit on these goods, out of the pocket of the people in the cities who have to buy these goods at the inflated prices.

So, what is the right balance? What is the right balance in your country? In many ways, the new schism is the urban/rural one, and handling it effectively may not be easy.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New Interesting chart
Urban centers tend to concentrate people with higher education levels than rural.

People with higher levels of education tend towards more democratic ideals in general (with really bright people tending towards socialism).

Which brings to mind the wisdom of PT Barnum as explanation for the popularity of the republican party.



In Java, you can't escape the creepy feeling.

     --James Gosling
New Rofl
Good one.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Well, "Dumbo" is their corporate logo
Join the Repos and work for peanuts!
-drl
New Another Roger Rabbit fan I see.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Some demographics for you
[link|http://plsc.uark.edu/arkpoll/fall99/party/PAGE4.HTM|http://plsc.uark.edu...9/party/PAGE4.HTM]

[link|http://www.opensecrets.org/pressreleases/DonorDemographics02.asp|http://www.opensecre...emographics02.asp]
The study also found that Republicans raised more than Democrats from individuals who contributed small and medium amounts of money during the 2002 election cycle, but Democrats far outpaced Republicans among deep-pocketed givers.


From : [link|http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,93838,00.html|http://www.foxnews.c...933,93838,00.html]
Al Gore (search) received only 36 percent of the white male vote against George Bush in 2000, less than Bill Clinton (search) in either 1992 or 1996. In a poll recently released by the centrist Democratic Leadership Council, now only 24 percent of white males consider themselves Democrats.



I guess that means that rich, white males are uneducated? I've been trying to Google demographics on the national election of 2000 but am unable to find educational levels. It's frustrating because I would like to see once and for all which party is "more educated". I disagree with your contention about urban centers. Most of the urban centers that I have lived in were surrounded by smaller but much wealthier (predominately Republican) suburbs... with most of the highly educated living in the inner city (where most of the voters are)? Right? I would be interested to see the real demographics. Little help, please?
Just a few thoughts,

Screamer


But take your time, think a lot,
Why, think of everything you've got.
For you will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not.


Y. Islam - Father and Son
New Gotta Love stats and their pedestrian Uses
If we knew the #s, histogram-form of Rich Repos vs Rich Demos as INDIVIDUALS - of the "generous giving" kind) -

One could infer that perhaps, Rich Demos give more than Rich Repos - realizing that they must counterbalance the Corporate directed anonymous funding, always and everwhere dedicated to preserving the status-quo - (as which Cosa Nostra / Our Thing.. would not! die to keep ?)

All those data; so little you can Trust! So Much you can morph into anything at all.

How then explain the individual $-Loosers (ie the Much-poorer) who also vote Repo?
Reply: Arnold. Lottery. Dream.

These surely imagine selves achieving the Murican Dream: I Get Mine next; screw the rest -- let's keep those loopholes Open so's I Can Use them next!
(Oh.. works Very Well with facial cosmetics, too)

Does this solve the mystery of why the oppressed love the oppressor? :-\ufffd

(Happened to catch the History Channel at a friend's last night; redoing the Stalin saga. C+ overstated commentary but great old pix.)

Even the Ukrainians.. while having virtually all their food confiscated and starving in hideous fashion.. as demanded triage among one's own children!
-- wrote letters to Stalin! They Loved Stalin, and presumed that He Couldn't Know! what was happening to moi. This in testimony from the few, the hardy, the Survivors - who vas dere, Charlie.

Why should we be surprised at a much milder (so far..) scenario here; we who for the most part haven't any slightest idea what the people in the SSRs went through -- yet still Believed in Uncle Joe <<<

So Lets's Vote to repeal that Death Tax thingie real soon now!
And Deregulate Absolutely Everything, while at it.

(No - Don't read the stats! on how absurd is that handy caricature of just that one buzzword issue.. I merely close with this standard form Murican political lying - matched well by complementary bizness lying.)

Tomorrow we gets to see how Loony is merely California - equally? greater than the National scene? {suspense}




OK, That's entertainment, fffolkes
New I seem to *recall*
California as a good place to live. I'm not happy about what's going on out there, Ash... We can spend millions of $$$ on a recall election because we don't "like" the clown elected. It will set some kind of precedent... I don't like the dog catcher - recall his sorry ass. I wonder how Bush feels about now? I guess it's time to put another actor in Sacramento to play "governor"... The last one was sooo goooood.

I caught part of the Stalin thing too. I concur with your analysis. They've been doing some interesting shows on all the Fletcher Memorial types from the 1900's on Dicovery (satellite - not sure which version of Discovery). I couldn't get much viewing done, however; since I spent the day with my family in Michigan picking about a bushel of 10 varieties of the 200 available at a u-pick place - complete with hayride out to orchards and pumpkin paraphenalia for the kids...

Sorry for the fluff but I'm just not feeling too confrontational today afterall.

Peace...
Just a few thoughts,

Screamer


But take your time, think a lot,
Why, think of everything you've got.
For you will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not.


Y. Islam - Father and Son
New Hmmm - that's morel territory, no?
I'd Kill for morels - and IIRC there are a few rich spots in MI, a place souding a bit like Punxatawny (of Groundhop Day fame) .. Pit- Pescataway? something. You can rarely buy the suckers Anywhere. Better'n beef!

Ah well, no sweat on the controversial stuff as shall always keep the pot boiling; by now we should all be smart enough to figure out It's a Crap Shoot, having nothing whatsoever to do with our pontifications n'Shoulds. Right?

As to California: even though {at times} I realize it's all a crap shoot - Yes you nailed it: this precedent for One millionaire acquiring the necessary (too--) few signatures to cancel an unliked [by him and cronies] election - may bite Lots on the Ass, before this scenaro is over.

It's anti-Constitutional in effect, even though putatively about "the will of the Peepul"; reminiscent of that Other recent Strategy of Ours: If you Can [do something] == nobody's big enough to Stop You: Do It.

Hey we're living out all the Greek Solons' preoccupations - and only Science 'Fiction' dares tell it As It Lies/Lays ;-) Love. It.


Ashton

Don't Worry. Be happy.
(Meher Baba realized that damn near no one would really Believe him on this..)
New Morels are a favorite up near Traverse City
Not so much in the southern portions of the state. Keep in mind Michigan is quite large... not so large as Cali. obviously, but large enough.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New I wouldn't kill for 'em
Maim? Morels are the finest fungus I've ever tasted. Far beyond portobellos or shitakes. Hmmm. Put those three together in some dish. Mushroooms .... goood ...

/Homer
-----------------------------------------
It is much harder to be a liberal than a conservative. Why?
Because it is easier to give someone the finger than it is to give them a helping hand.
Mike Royko
New That would BE: "The Breakfast of Champignons"
..but I think morels deserve not to be diluted. Paeans have been written about these, and I'd bet that a few men have indeed died over such, in earlier more truculent times. Earlier? umm wait - those are back.. (Dunno about '03, but mushroom hunters are known to have a bad attitude re poachers)

Guess I gotta sell somebody's kid into slavery - sooner.


Ashton
New OT: whereabouts in MI?
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Minutia
[link|http://www.treemendus-fruit.com/|http://www.treemendus-fruit.com/]

We'll try this link:
[link|http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?zoom=4&mapdata=TqOnUq4VuyQ2PA6hEwjKTOHj8hyXliPoR6Saqs1yR%2fXYnG%2f9cWmbTkMMSAldClaE6KHIBgGBa9TSlvbRWafP3%2fRlOlg5xOfWWyuslqeO%2bEmrFCX4xFLAQ1YZdbQs4tOouxmtsDx1ipuLqE6KHKkYW2GdM5my44hkYG47y9EGJHcUaKAmUqjLUxNMI3ePqX%2bUrTkeTNsnKPOX%2fJ7Gqh%2bJHo5C3gEuOzen2zUWyN02QdJ2DNICJwzP2mcUgHE%2fqPG%2b0YSkljoBs7gBzGE1HNzRhBp9kS0jr7fAcotx8e1aDmx3AoamKq1RkIisXAv6MjBNL3eWr%2b0HlPqAy3vNp%2b9JGPJWagspNySiyxVi35GNJQuoW9ak%2fsFDMg%3d%3d|http://www.mapquest....9ak%2fsFDMg%3d%3d]

It's about 40 minutes from my home in Granger (rich white suburb - mostly Republican {except me and about 20 other heretics} - of South Bend) Indiana.

I have discovered that Mutzu and Fuji are about my favorite eating apples with some of the green varieties best for cooking - just a little dab of butter and sloads of cinnamon placed on top of crushed graham crackers.

As earlier surmised, Morels are hard to come by but exist in lower Michigan and, in fact, my yard. I grab them and puff balls the size of my head and do some interesting cooking stuff with them on the grill and in the oven. As predominately a vegetarian, I substitute a lot of fungi when the beans no longer cut it. (LRPD? - ruling needed on "when beans no longer cut it".) Speaking of cheese (huh? whu?), I've found an Amish hickory smoked cheddar that is absolutely the gastronomical bomb.

I can tell that it's getting close to lunch so I best just go get something to eat rather than expound on more minutia.
Just a few thoughts,

Screamer


But take your time, think a lot,
Why, think of everything you've got.
For you will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not.


Y. Islam - Father and Son
New Ah, gotcha.
I grew up north of there on M-140, on the shoreline (South Haven). Nice area. No morels in our yard, and I wasn't aware you could eat puffballs. My wife is not a fungus eater, regardless.

How do you cook the apples?
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New a bit more...
From:
[link|http://www.gigaflop.demon.co.uk/mushcook/other.htm|http://www.gigaflop....ushcook/other.htm]


Puffball Recipes

* Giant Puffball Galvatia Giantea or Lycoperdon giganteum or Langermannia gigantea [ ] Becomes chewy and yellow with age.
* Common Puffball Lycoperdon perlantum[ ] Edible only when young
* Lycoperdon pyriforme[ ] Edible only when young
* Lycoperdon echinatum[ ] Edible only when young
* Calvatia excipuliformis[ ] Edible only when young
* Calvatia utriformis[ ] Edible only when young
* Vascellum pratense[ ] Edible only when young

(not true puffballs but close enough)

* Bovista nigrescens[ ] Edible only when young
* Bovista plumbea[ ] Edible only when young

These mushrooms can be found from the summer onwards, and is often an early hint to keep your eyes open as the main mushroom season is is on it's way. The flavour is light and indistinctive and I've not been able to do much with these other than in mixtures with other mushrooms.

The giant puffball is an easy mushroom to prepare for cooking as it is little effected by maggots, and it's smooth shape means that it often need only be wiped with a damp cloth.

Various books offer the following advice:
Lycoperdon species are well suited for flavouring soups and stews.
The giant puffball lends itself to being cut into steaks, dipped in beaten egg covered in breadcrumbs and fried, especially in the pan juices after frying bacon. Try also grilling one side of a thick slice, then turning it over and grilling the other, adding cheese slices and seasoning.
******


I tend to do the breaded thingy with puffballs (using Fry Magic, of course - best thing going for fish as well...) Skip the bacon...

I tend to make fried apples as described - cinnamon, graham crackers, a touch of butter and/or brown sugar as to taste. Nothing fancy. My wife likes to do the apple/rubarb pie thing... I don't have her recipe handy, but I sure love the taste.

Dan
Just a few thoughts,

Screamer


But take your time, think a lot,
Why, think of everything you've got.
For you will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not.


Y. Islam - Father and Son
New Big business at $42 a pop?
If that's what you consider a big business, what would you consider a small one?

[link|http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/aug2000/dnc-a17.shtml|Oh, and Hollywood is a business, too. Big one.]

Can you say "jb4 is a blithering idiot!" I knew you could.
----------------------------------------------------------------
DEAL WITH IT.
"I do not want to be admired by scumbags and liars and wife beaters. I want to be admired by good and decent, intelligent and just people, and in order to achieve this I need to do things that make me despised by their opposites." - Bill Whittle
Never mind all the mass graves. Where's the nerve gas?
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
     Who's giving to the Republican Party? - (marlowe) - (23)
         So who ARE they bought and paid for? - (jb4) - (21)
             Re: So who ARE they bought and paid for? - (bepatient) - (19)
                 BZZZZT! Sorry wrong answer.... - (jb4) - (3)
                     Ah...la poisson rouge! - (bepatient) - (2)
                         Folie \ufffd deux; folie \ufffd millon___dream stuff about 'riches' -NT - (Ashton)
                         It is a problem - (jake123)
                 Interesting chart - (tuberculosis) - (14)
                     Rofl - (bepatient)
                     Well, "Dumbo" is their corporate logo - (deSitter) - (1)
                         Another Roger Rabbit fan I see. -NT - (bepatient)
                     Some demographics for you - (screamer) - (10)
                         Gotta Love stats and their pedestrian Uses - (Ashton) - (9)
                             I seem to *recall* - (screamer) - (8)
                                 Hmmm - that's morel territory, no? - (Ashton) - (3)
                                     Morels are a favorite up near Traverse City - (admin)
                                     I wouldn't kill for 'em - (Silverlock) - (1)
                                         That would BE: "The Breakfast of Champignons" - (Ashton)
                                 OT: whereabouts in MI? -NT - (admin) - (3)
                                     Minutia - (screamer) - (2)
                                         Ah, gotcha. - (admin) - (1)
                                             a bit more... - (screamer)
             Big business at $42 a pop? - (marlowe)
         Its kind of hard to donate money - (tuberculosis)

In a medium-dudgeon.
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