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Post #115,131 by mhuber 8/24/03 2:36:17 AM Reply	You are being misdirected The question at hand has nothing to do with the goodness or badness of religion. It has to do with children being forced, by a govornment employee in a position of authority, to make a political and religious statement. Chess clubs don't kill people, as far as I know, but that isn't the point - chess clubs don't demand that govornment authority figures make kids say "I beleive that chess rules America" every morning. ---- Sometime you the windshield, sometime you the bug, sometime you the driver you turn on the windshield washer you keep going.
Post #115,324 by Ashton 8/25/03 4:34:00 PM Reply	At Last:___The CRUX of the matter!
Post #115,340 by inthane-chan 8/25/03 7:08:47 PM Reply	You didn't know my chess coach. ;)
Post #115,371 by Silverlock 8/25/03 11:07:35 PM Reply	Exactly This is why I can't understand the "no difference" crew. ----------------------------------------- [link\|http://www.talion.com/questionw.html\|?W] Where were you in 72? [link\|http://www.blah3.com/graymatter/archives/00000420.html\|Fair and Balanced] sig
Post #115,373 by admin 8/25/03 11:11:26 PM Reply	Oh no, you don't. "No difference" has absolutely fucking NOTHING to do with being FORCED to do something. I am utterly, completely AGAINST forcing people to pledge a flag, acknowledge a god, or whatever. More messy thinking on your part. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #115,375 by Silverlock 8/25/03 11:13:35 PM Reply	Try this word Implicit. ----------------------------------------- [link\|http://www.talion.com/questionw.html\|?W] Where were you in 72? [link\|http://www.blah3.com/graymatter/archives/00000420.html\|Fair and Balanced] sig
Post #115,377 by admin 8/25/03 11:16:14 PM Reply	Try this one: Bullshit. There's a HUGE difference between a teacher standing up in front of a classroom forcing kids to say "under God", and a Christian group meeting in the cafeteria after hours. Give me a break. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #115,378 by Silverlock 8/25/03 11:27:30 PM Reply	Response noted Differences now abound. The authority implied in a school building doesn't really count. It's not strong enough compared to teacher leading prayers. Give me a break? Right back atcha. ----------------------------------------- [link\|http://www.talion.com/questionw.html\|?W] Where were you in 72? [link\|http://www.blah3.com/graymatter/archives/00000420.html\|Fair and Balanced] sig
Post #115,379 by admin 8/25/03 11:33:01 PM Reply	Substantively different in kind Not in magnitude. The teacher is acting in an official capacity. The religious group is meeting on their own time without official involvement. So yes, differences abound in this comparison, whether you care to see them or not. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #115,482 by boxley 8/26/03 9:26:49 PM Reply	Oy shift this crap into politics where it belongs, what the state wants needs or gets is a secular issue. How many arms yer fav disincorporated being has is a religous issue. Of coarse I would never do such a thing :-) thanx, Bill America, Love it or give it back questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #115,518 by bepatient 8/27/03 6:56:57 AM Reply	That would be unconstitutional ;-) If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #115,572 by Ashton 8/27/03 3:49:24 PM Reply	Spoken like a Strict deConstructionist. . .

The Pledge of Allegiance is no longer required in schools - (orion) - (138) - Aug. 20, 2003, 09:46:32 AM EDT

Pledge of Allegiance no longer required? - (rcareaga) - (3) - Aug. 20, 2003, 09:58:54 AM EDT

Evidence - (orion) - (2) - Aug. 20, 2003, 02:58:50 PM EDT

Re: Evidence - (rcareaga) - (1) - Aug. 20, 2003, 04:47:57 PM EDT

Is this the news forum? - (orion) - Aug. 20, 2003, 05:14:01 PM EDT

Separation of Church and State. - (pwhysall) - (128) - Aug. 20, 2003, 10:08:57 AM EDT

It is not "separation"... - (bepatient) - (127) - Aug. 20, 2003, 01:11:42 PM EDT

I'll beg to differ. - (inthane-chan) - (24) - Aug. 20, 2003, 03:30:58 PM EDT

Beg all you like. - (bepatient) - (23) - Aug. 20, 2003, 03:58:10 PM EDT

That's not the point. - (inthane-chan) - (19) - Aug. 20, 2003, 04:07:47 PM EDT

No I got it. - (bepatient) - Aug. 20, 2003, 04:14:53 PM EDT

However, banning is exactly what is happening - (bluke) - (17) - Aug. 21, 2003, 04:25:40 AM EDT

Re: However, banning is exactly what is happening - (JayMehaffey) - (16) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:44:00 PM EDT

well stated -NT - (deSitter) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:45:14 PM EDT

Disagree completely. - (Steve Lowe) - (12) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:58:42 PM EDT

Correct... - (bepatient) - (6) - Aug. 21, 2003, 01:11:50 PM EDT

Threat to long-term survival. - (Ashton) - (5) - Aug. 21, 2003, 03:51:03 PM EDT

So who decides on what proper 'indoctrination' is? - (Steve Lowe) - (1) - Aug. 21, 2003, 04:28:19 PM EDT

Re: So who decides on what proper 'indoctrination' is? - (Ashton) - Aug. 22, 2003, 01:29:29 AM EDT

Dear me... - (bepatient) - (2) - Aug. 22, 2003, 08:02:30 AM EDT

An anticipated Bowdlerization. Let me Econ- it for ya: - (Ashton) - (1) - Aug. 22, 2003, 06:41:38 PM EDT

Not necessary... - (bepatient) - Aug. 22, 2003, 07:45:03 PM EDT

Doesn't have to be a specific religion - (JayMehaffey) - (4) - Aug. 21, 2003, 02:14:50 PM EDT

the constitution states ... - (bluke) - (3) - Aug. 21, 2003, 04:55:27 PM EDT

Well, up here - (jake123) - Aug. 21, 2003, 06:12:07 PM EDT

Thats the common translation now bluke... - (bepatient) - (1) - Aug. 22, 2003, 08:10:37 AM EDT

I agree with that wording - (Ashton) - Aug. 22, 2003, 07:36:27 PM EDT

Not true - (bluke) - (1) - Aug. 21, 2003, 04:52:14 PM EDT

I'm pretty much with you on that - (jake123) - Aug. 21, 2003, 06:14:48 PM EDT

Folie \ufffd deux.. folie \ufffd millon - Again!? - (Ashton) - (2) - Aug. 20, 2003, 06:35:37 PM EDT

Re: Folie \ufffd deux.. folie \ufffd millon - Again!? - (bepatient) - (1) - Aug. 21, 2003, 08:20:23 AM EDT

In context of peer (and teacher) pressure and required - (Ashton) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:51:45 AM EDT

Operative word - (Silverlock) - (98) - Aug. 20, 2003, 03:45:58 PM EDT

Agreed - (bepatient) - (97) - Aug. 20, 2003, 04:07:37 PM EDT

Nit picking - (Silverlock) - (95) - Aug. 20, 2003, 04:15:50 PM EDT

No I didn't miss it. - (bepatient) - (94) - Aug. 20, 2003, 04:28:27 PM EDT

(Op iff p) - (FuManChu) - Aug. 20, 2003, 05:25:30 PM EDT

I don't think I could disagree more - (Silverlock) - (92) - Aug. 21, 2003, 10:40:25 AM EDT

Well we will disagree entirely here. - (bepatient) - (35) - Aug. 21, 2003, 10:51:43 AM EDT

No it isn't. - (pwhysall) - (34) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:17:23 AM EDT

No that not what he said. - (bepatient) - (33) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:28:33 AM EDT

Re: No that not what he said. - (pwhysall) - (25) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:31:13 AM EDT

Its not... - (bepatient) - (24) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:49:23 AM EDT

Re: Its not... - (pwhysall) - (22) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:59:25 AM EDT

Now we see... - (bepatient) - (9) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:29:45 PM EDT

Say it ain't so. - (pwhysall) - (8) - Aug. 21, 2003, 04:53:30 PM EDT

Nazis killed people - (bluke) - (3) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:03:39 PM EDT

Got link? - (Silverlock) - (2) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:54:54 PM EDT

OT: while looking for link, found this: - (Arkadiy) - (1) - Aug. 22, 2003, 10:13:39 AM EDT

I don't quite grok his comment, - (Ashton) - Aug. 22, 2003, 07:04:37 PM EDT

I want the tax dollars... - (bepatient) - (3) - Aug. 22, 2003, 08:15:30 AM EDT

I find it ironic... - (admin) - (2) - Aug. 22, 2003, 09:36:28 AM EDT

Aye Cap'n...there's the rub. -NT - (bepatient) - Aug. 22, 2003, 09:44:10 AM EDT

That is ever the danger of the uninformed literal mind. -NT - (Ashton) - Aug. 22, 2003, 07:29:47 PM EDT

You are being misdirected - (mhuber) - (11) - Aug. 24, 2003, 02:36:17 AM EDT

At Last:___The CRUX of the matter! -NT - (Ashton) - Aug. 25, 2003, 04:34:00 PM EDT

You didn't know my chess coach. ;) -NT - (inthane-chan) - Aug. 25, 2003, 07:08:47 PM EDT

Exactly - (Silverlock) - (8) - Aug. 25, 2003, 11:07:35 PM EDT

Oh no, you don't. - (admin) - (4) - Aug. 25, 2003, 11:11:26 PM EDT

Try this word - (Silverlock) - (3) - Aug. 25, 2003, 11:13:35 PM EDT

Try this one: - (admin) - (2) - Aug. 25, 2003, 11:16:14 PM EDT

Response noted - (Silverlock) - (1) - Aug. 25, 2003, 11:27:30 PM EDT

Substantively different in kind - (admin) - Aug. 25, 2003, 11:33:01 PM EDT

Oy shift this crap into politics - (boxley) - (2) - Aug. 26, 2003, 09:26:49 PM EDT

That would be unconstitutional ;-) -NT - (bepatient) - (1) - Aug. 27, 2003, 06:56:57 AM EDT

Spoken like a Strict deConstructionist. . . -NT - (Ashton) - Aug. 27, 2003, 03:49:24 PM EDT

It is not the function of government at all. - (Ashton) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:13:12 PM EDT

Get it straight - (Silverlock) - (5) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:58:15 AM EDT

You've entirely missed the point of church-state separation - (deSitter) - (4) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:11:02 PM EDT

Re: You've entirely missed the point of church-state separat - (Ashton) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:27:52 PM EDT

Quibble about liberalism - (jake123) - (2) - Aug. 21, 2003, 06:28:33 PM EDT

yes - (deSitter) - (1) - Aug. 21, 2003, 07:13:48 PM EDT

A great Stine cartoon has graced my reefer for ages - (Ashton) - Aug. 22, 2003, 01:47:11 AM EDT

Good News Club v Milford Central Schools (1998) - (Another Scott) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:59:39 AM EDT

Can "Anti-Creationism Alliance" meet in the school gym? -NT - (Arkadiy) - (40) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:28:29 AM EDT

Why not. -NT - (bepatient) - (1) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:28:56 AM EDT

I know your answer - (Arkadiy) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:16:18 PM EDT

It already does - (Silverlock) - (6) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:20:15 PM EDT

So, it's OK to advance the cause of Atheism on Govt property - (Arkadiy) - (5) - Aug. 21, 2003, 01:35:14 PM EDT

Not my point at all - (Silverlock) - (3) - Aug. 21, 2003, 01:49:56 PM EDT

Sorry. - (Arkadiy) - (2) - Aug. 21, 2003, 02:03:29 PM EDT

Which question? - (Silverlock) - (1) - Aug. 21, 2003, 03:02:19 PM EDT

Both, please? - (Arkadiy) - Aug. 22, 2003, 10:05:34 AM EDT

Umm we've had the 'A-theism' discussion several times - (Ashton) - Aug. 22, 2003, 01:55:21 AM EDT

Here's where I stand. - (inthane-chan) - (30) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:42:44 PM EDT

Only the very best representatives - (Arkadiy) - Aug. 21, 2003, 01:37:48 PM EDT

Britney Spears. - (pwhysall) - Aug. 21, 2003, 04:58:10 PM EDT

Science is religion - (jake123) - Aug. 21, 2003, 06:35:39 PM EDT

Where I disagree with you - (Silverlock) - (26) - Aug. 21, 2003, 09:52:23 PM EDT

Discrimination - (bluke) - (24) - Aug. 22, 2003, 03:35:10 AM EDT

you answer your own question - (Silverlock) - (23) - Aug. 22, 2003, 11:54:00 AM EDT

Perversion of the Constitution. - (admin) - (22) - Aug. 22, 2003, 12:12:36 PM EDT

See my response to Beep - (Silverlock) - (21) - Aug. 22, 2003, 12:35:21 PM EDT

Which part of it? - (admin) - (20) - Aug. 22, 2003, 12:47:25 PM EDT

I don't agree - (Silverlock) - (19) - Aug. 22, 2003, 12:58:11 PM EDT

And its discriminatory. - (bepatient) - Aug. 22, 2003, 01:04:15 PM EDT

Don't see how you can call that logical. - (admin) - (15) - Aug. 22, 2003, 01:28:16 PM EDT

Argument from authority - (Silverlock) - (14) - Aug. 24, 2003, 09:18:29 AM EDT

Wrong. Lame attempt at misdirection. - (admin) - (13) - Aug. 24, 2003, 09:37:20 AM EDT

The law is in regards to faith. - (Silverlock) - (12) - Aug. 25, 2003, 10:26:49 AM EDT

Doesn't matter what the law is about. - (admin) - (11) - Aug. 25, 2003, 10:48:16 AM EDT

Ok - (Silverlock) - (10) - Aug. 25, 2003, 11:58:23 AM EDT

Heh heh... - (bepatient) - (1) - Aug. 25, 2003, 12:07:51 PM EDT

Braap - (Silverlock) - Aug. 25, 2003, 12:11:57 PM EDT

... - (admin) - Aug. 25, 2003, 12:11:49 PM EDT

I agree with your point, Don. - (a6l6e6x) - (6) - Aug. 25, 2003, 12:47:07 PM EDT

Er... *legal* groups. - (admin) - (3) - Aug. 25, 2003, 01:16:21 PM EDT

But ritual animal sacrifice is perfectly legal. - (a6l6e6x) - (2) - Aug. 25, 2003, 02:34:16 PM EDT

Cool... - (bepatient) - Aug. 25, 2003, 02:38:18 PM EDT

Goes in same category as the rest of the legal groups then. -NT - (admin) - Aug. 25, 2003, 02:47:07 PM EDT

And I know those... - (bepatient) - (1) - Aug. 25, 2003, 01:25:47 PM EDT

OK for just now: perhaps made illegal____just after WW-III? -NT - (Ashton) - Aug. 25, 2003, 04:00:14 PM EDT

Um, no . Current case law says the opposite - (mhuber) - (1) - Aug. 24, 2003, 02:44:21 AM EDT

Good, that's how it should be. -NT - (admin) - Aug. 24, 2003, 09:37:58 AM EDT

It seems to have come to 'about that', no? - (Ashton) - Aug. 22, 2003, 03:44:23 AM EDT

Some serious disagreement - (jake123) - (14) - Aug. 21, 2003, 06:25:54 PM EDT

No - (Silverlock) - (13) - Aug. 21, 2003, 10:09:41 PM EDT

That is very nice - (bluke) - (12) - Aug. 22, 2003, 12:26:33 AM EDT

Its outright prejudicial.. - (bepatient) - (11) - Aug. 22, 2003, 08:18:10 AM EDT

You actually believe that? - (Silverlock) - (10) - Aug. 22, 2003, 12:29:33 PM EDT

Admin stated the views adequately above. -NT - (bepatient) - Aug. 22, 2003, 12:58:19 PM EDT

Amtrack is federally subsidized - (Arkadiy) - (3) - Aug. 22, 2003, 12:59:28 PM EDT

He wants his money back ;-) -NT - (bepatient) - Aug. 22, 2003, 01:04:57 PM EDT

Silly, but it does raise an interesting point.. - (hnick) - (1) - Aug. 22, 2003, 01:21:59 PM EDT

Exactly. The motivation should be moot. - (admin) - Aug. 22, 2003, 01:30:36 PM EDT

Riding in the back of the bus - (jake123) - (4) - Aug. 22, 2003, 02:35:20 PM EDT

Where do you draw the line? - (Silverlock) - (3) - Aug. 22, 2003, 04:28:32 PM EDT

Re: Where do you draw the line? - (admin) - (2) - Aug. 22, 2003, 05:10:33 PM EDT

Was that a surrender or a .. Gah !?__:-\ufffd -NT - (Ashton) - (1) - Aug. 22, 2003, 07:48:04 PM EDT

It was an attempt at illogic - (admin) - Aug. 22, 2003, 09:55:43 PM EDT

Declared unconstitutional? - (mhuber) - Aug. 24, 2003, 02:23:07 AM EDT

No free exercise is being touched here - (JayMehaffey) - (2) - Aug. 20, 2003, 08:21:54 PM EDT

Thats not at issue... - (bepatient) - (1) - Aug. 21, 2003, 08:22:01 AM EDT

Good. - (pwhysall) - Aug. 21, 2003, 08:30:24 AM EDT

2 different issues - (JayMehaffey) - (3) - Aug. 20, 2003, 02:39:45 PM EDT

Must disagree with the "remedy". Again. - (Ashton) - (2) - Aug. 20, 2003, 07:03:52 PM EDT

In theory yes - (JayMehaffey) - (1) - Aug. 20, 2003, 08:04:57 PM EDT

Then others' childhood experience was quite different from - (Ashton) - Aug. 20, 2003, 09:22:47 PM EDT

Even in Indiana - it is not required. - (mmoffitt) - Aug. 27, 2003, 05:24:18 PM EDT

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