Post #114,923
8/22/03 12:29:33 PM
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You actually believe that?
I don't want you using my tax money to support your worship and that is the same as racial discrimination to you. Astounding. Tell me when I ever made christians ride in the back of the bus.
Neutral. Remember that word? The only way the gov can truly be neutral with respect to religion is to scrupulously avoid supporting any of the various flavors.
I don't think we can continue. Fundamental difference in definitions.
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Post #114,928
8/22/03 12:58:19 PM
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Admin stated the views adequately above.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #114,929
8/22/03 12:59:02 PM
8/22/03 12:59:28 PM
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Amtrack is federally subsidized
I ride an Amtrack train to attend a religious convention. Did I violate your rights?
--
Less Is More. In my book, About Face, I introduce over 50 powerful design axioms. This is one of them.
--Alan Cooper. The Inmates Are Running the Asylum
Edited by Arkadiy
Aug. 22, 2003, 12:59:28 PM EDT
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Post #114,931
8/22/03 1:04:57 PM
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He wants his money back ;-)
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #114,934
8/22/03 1:21:59 PM
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Silly, but it does raise an interesting point..
Using Amtrack is no different than using pubicly funded roads to go to church or convention.
However... Suppose that a church or religious group of some size held a clearly non-secular event. They are expecting thousands. Should the city officials schedule extra busses or otherwise increase the availibility of transportation? It is their responsibility to provide public transportation. Is it reasonable to supprort, say a Star Trek convention, and not support say, a Billy Graham fest?
I would think that it would be their responsibility to provide the transportation and ignore the motivation of the citizens. Keeping tabs of the motives of the people is not their responisbility.
Following that line of reasoning then, I would think that it would be appropriate for public buildings to be used by any group as long as the criteria for use was the same for any and all groups who are interested. My basic faith in human nature leads me to believe that the implementation of this would be corrupted in no time, but the concept should be good.
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Post #114,936
8/22/03 1:30:36 PM
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Exactly. The motivation should be moot.
Those people pay taxes too. They should be allowed the use of public facilities to meet, just as they can ride the train, or the bus, or whatever.
The fact that the Constitution's authors thought that religious discrimination was an important enough problem to be addressed explicitly should not be turned around into an excuse for discrimination against all religions.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #114,941
8/22/03 2:33:32 PM
8/22/03 2:35:20 PM
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Riding in the back of the bus
Right now, a lot of Muslims are "riding in the back of the bus" in a lot of ways in NA right now... like arbitrary detention without charge and other fun things like that.
Silverlock, Atheism is just as much a statement of faith as Catholicism. You cannot expect your position to get more support from the state than those of Catholics etc, and yet you think it's ok for religious people's taxes to support non-religious events and groups, while it's not ok for non-religious people's taxes to support religious activities and groups.
The idea is absurd on the face of it. The statement in the Constitution seems very clear to me; no state religion, and no discrimination based on religion. This is NOT the same as discriminating against religion.
For the record, I usually keep my personal ruminations on the being and nature of God to myself. In general, I'm somewhere a mix between a pantheist/animist with touches of a personal deity. I definitely don't fall under the rubric of traditional christian doctrine; in the bad old days, they probably would have burned me at the stake.
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Edited by jake123
Aug. 22, 2003, 02:35:20 PM EDT
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Post #114,970
8/22/03 4:28:32 PM
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Where do you draw the line?
Say I finally relent and agree that it is harmless to hold prayer meetings in school. What exactly is not permissible? Proseltyzing? Preaching? Baptism? Conversion? Animal sacrifice?
Why does this argument always come up in response to yet another christian incursion into publicly funded areas? I don't seem to remember any cases of Jewish, Muslim, Hindu or other beliefs getting shot down in court for the same things.
I guess I don't see it. How is not allowing the trappings of religion to be displayed in publicly funded buildings harming the followers of those religions?
You and a few others equate this with discrimination. I think of it as a sensible precaution.
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Post #114,976
8/22/03 5:10:33 PM
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Re: Where do you draw the line?
Say I finally relent and agree that it is harmless to hold Pokemon tournaments in school. What exactly is not permissible? Run-offs? Advertising? Victory laps? Laughing? Card trading?
Why does this argument always come up in response to yet another corporate incursion into publicly funded areas? I don't seem to remember any cases of Harry Potter, Magic The Gathering, Scooby Doo or other trading card clubs getting shot down in court for the same things.
I guess I don't see it. How is not allowing the logos of a corporation to be displayed in publicly funded buildings harming the players of those card games?
You and a few others equate this with discrimination. I think of it as a sensible precaution.
--
And before you get hung-up on the details of the satire:
Ban all groups from using schools, or ban none of them. Anything else is discrimination.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #115,005
8/22/03 7:48:04 PM
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Was that a surrender or a .. Gah !?__:-\ufffd
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Post #115,021
8/22/03 9:55:43 PM
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It was an attempt at illogic
... to show the illogic of his position.
So I guess it was a "Gah". ;-)
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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