You've entirely missed the point of church-state separation

Post #114,741 by deSitter 8/21/03 12:07:36 PM 8/21/03 12:11:02 PM Reply	You've entirely missed the point of church-state separation Ironically, this is more or less the same issue as gun control and the 2nd amendment - call it - thought control. The 1st Amendment merely states that the government is NOT INVOLVED IN ANY WAY with religious issues - that the sector of life involved with faith is NOT to be in any way trammled by offical sanction. So it's bloody well irrelevant if people pray in school - what is NOT irrelevant is an offical act by the govt that directly attempts to sponsor specific icons, customs, and doctrines of this or that particular sect - as the idiot in Alabama is doing with his Mosaic monument. This is why I cannot claim liberalism, in spite of agreeing with them on most issues - they are just as obsessed with thought and behavior control as the rightists. (Edit: according to your viewpoint, we should burn or melt all the money that states "In God We Trust", or at least all that bearing Masonic symbols (Novus Ordo Seclorum and all that). The presence of these symbols in no way represents an endorsement of a sect, because their presence does not in any way restrict the individual from believing what he pleases.) -drl Edited by deSitter Aug. 21, 2003, 12:11:02 PM EDT You've entirely missed the point of church-state separation Ironically, this is more or less the same issue as gun control and the 2nd amendment - call it - thought control. The 1st Amendment merely states that the government is NOT INVOLVED IN ANY WAY with religious issues - that the sector of life involved with faith is NOT to be in any way trammled by offical sanction. So it's bloody well irrelevant if people pray in school - what is NOT irrelevant is an offical act by the govt that directly attempts to sponsor specific icons, customs, and doctrines of this or that particular sect - as the idiot in Alabama is doing with his Mosaic monument. This is why I cannot claim liberalism, in spite of agreeing with them on most issues - they are just as obsessed with thought and behavior control as the rightists. -drl Collapse All History
Post #114,751 by Ashton 8/21/03 12:27:52 PM Reply	Re: You've entirely missed the point of church-state separat (Edit: according to your viewpoint, we should burn or melt all the money that states "In God We Trust", or at least all that bearing Masonic symbols (Novus Ordo Seclorum and all that). The presence of these symbols in no way represents an endorsement of a sect, because their presence does not in any way restrict the individual from believing what he pleases.) Methinks this phrasing elides the propaganda aspect - of the constant presence of a metaphysical POV which is quite specific, odious to some, while perhaps tolerable to --> embraced by, that old Majority again. This is a Minority-rights issue as well as 'other'. It is this aspect (and I'm sure we could think of others) which is best addressed by ~ Ne le touchez pas! And yes: eventually the blatant "In God We Trust" must fade away. No need for a bonfire. As to Novus Ordo Seculorum: freed from Masonic happenstance, it is nicely unspecific about ineffable matters - "New World Order" has degenerated into a catchphrase for Any wet dream, right on up to the current Neoconman plan for Empire. 2 Kopeks
Post #114,836 by jake123 8/21/03 6:28:33 PM Reply	Quibble about liberalism what Americans call liberalism is so far from the actual philosophy as to defy comprehension as to how it came to be called that in the US. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #114,838 by deSitter 8/21/03 7:13:48 PM Reply	yes and it's true here as well. Liberalism used to mean what we call "libertarian", but now means - Communism of opinion and desire. DESIRE. Americans are run by desires. Now they WANT what the dreaded Enemy wanted. -drl
Post #114,868 by Ashton 8/22/03 1:47:11 AM Reply	A great Stine cartoon has graced my reefer for ages It's now yellowed & water stained. Shows a sketch of a guy with his head bent down flat over a shoulder.. by a huge stack of 'blocks' of various sizes; Sez (flowed around the character) "So often we fail to see that the unrelenting, sometimes even horrific, pressures we live under are actually pressures that we created by our own DESIRES in the first place." Thou sayest..

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