Must disagree with the "remedy". Again.

IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO

1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User

Welcome to IWETHEY!

Post #114,627 by Ashton 8/20/03 6:57:15 PM 8/20/03 7:03:52 PM Reply	Must disagree with the "remedy". Again. But on the other hand, its really a minor issue. As long as the rule that students are allowed to sit out the pledge is enforced, the argument about that phrase is trivial. There are a lot more important issues that need to be addressed. This is merely more obfuscation of the fundamental issue. cf. my post above. It is a Very Bad Habit especially* to inculcate in The Young! -- as this sloppiness in perception, in analysis of the consequences and.. all which follows from that mindset-of-sloppiness: IS What Got US Where We Are Today, with Who! We Have Allowed to 'Lead' US, and Wherever THAT-All is taking US NEXT ---> -?- Rest case. Ashton (For the old and concrete-set mentations: Let Them Die Off amidst their illusions, peacefully as possible - but let not These! further fuck up this culture.. now nearing its death-throes over a variety of er Issues of Conscience.) Edit- grammar Edited by Ashton Aug. 20, 2003, 07:03:52 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #114,648 by JayMehaffey 8/20/03 8:04:57 PM Reply	In theory yes In theory I agree, it's not like I'm going to object to seeing the pledge removed or returned to it's original wording. In practice, there is a lot of other things I consider a lot more important. Even if your goal is to give children a better education and teach them to think for themselves, a lot more can probably be gained reworking textbooks and training teachers better. Jay
Post #114,652 by Ashton 8/20/03 9:22:47 PM Reply	Then others' childhood experience was quite different from mine - I Noticed the inconsistencies and the 'sliding principles' (remember - a 'military school' is allegedly about 'following rules'.. and not just about what shoes to wear. (Granted that military 'justice', like m. music.. yada yada - but we were Reading too. And it wasn't the Real military, thank Gawd.)) I think that the children Notice and Remember -- and that's why it's so EZ later, to morph into PHB after the first taste of power over 'subordinates'. Whore/price/yes-no Yup, maybe I'm weird. Still, I think 'We' are Weird, now - more weird than ever before; and in acute possibly terminal denial. Ashton

The Pledge of Allegiance is no longer required in schools - (orion) - (138) - Aug. 20, 2003, 09:46:32 AM EDT

Pledge of Allegiance no longer required? - (rcareaga) - (3) - Aug. 20, 2003, 09:58:54 AM EDT

Evidence - (orion) - (2) - Aug. 20, 2003, 02:58:50 PM EDT

Re: Evidence - (rcareaga) - (1) - Aug. 20, 2003, 04:47:57 PM EDT

Is this the news forum? - (orion) - Aug. 20, 2003, 05:14:01 PM EDT

Separation of Church and State. - (pwhysall) - (128) - Aug. 20, 2003, 10:08:57 AM EDT

It is not "separation"... - (bepatient) - (127) - Aug. 20, 2003, 01:11:42 PM EDT

I'll beg to differ. - (inthane-chan) - (24) - Aug. 20, 2003, 03:30:58 PM EDT

Beg all you like. - (bepatient) - (23) - Aug. 20, 2003, 03:58:10 PM EDT

That's not the point. - (inthane-chan) - (19) - Aug. 20, 2003, 04:07:47 PM EDT

No I got it. - (bepatient) - Aug. 20, 2003, 04:14:53 PM EDT

However, banning is exactly what is happening - (bluke) - (17) - Aug. 21, 2003, 04:25:40 AM EDT

Re: However, banning is exactly what is happening - (JayMehaffey) - (16) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:44:00 PM EDT

well stated -NT - (deSitter) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:45:14 PM EDT

Disagree completely. - (Steve Lowe) - (12) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:58:42 PM EDT

Correct... - (bepatient) - (6) - Aug. 21, 2003, 01:11:50 PM EDT

Threat to long-term survival. - (Ashton) - (5) - Aug. 21, 2003, 03:51:03 PM EDT

So who decides on what proper 'indoctrination' is? - (Steve Lowe) - (1) - Aug. 21, 2003, 04:28:19 PM EDT

Re: So who decides on what proper 'indoctrination' is? - (Ashton) - Aug. 22, 2003, 01:29:29 AM EDT

Dear me... - (bepatient) - (2) - Aug. 22, 2003, 08:02:30 AM EDT

An anticipated Bowdlerization. Let me Econ- it for ya: - (Ashton) - (1) - Aug. 22, 2003, 06:41:38 PM EDT

Not necessary... - (bepatient) - Aug. 22, 2003, 07:45:03 PM EDT

Doesn't have to be a specific religion - (JayMehaffey) - (4) - Aug. 21, 2003, 02:14:50 PM EDT

the constitution states ... - (bluke) - (3) - Aug. 21, 2003, 04:55:27 PM EDT

Well, up here - (jake123) - Aug. 21, 2003, 06:12:07 PM EDT

Thats the common translation now bluke... - (bepatient) - (1) - Aug. 22, 2003, 08:10:37 AM EDT

I agree with that wording - (Ashton) - Aug. 22, 2003, 07:36:27 PM EDT

Not true - (bluke) - (1) - Aug. 21, 2003, 04:52:14 PM EDT

I'm pretty much with you on that - (jake123) - Aug. 21, 2003, 06:14:48 PM EDT

Folie \ufffd deux.. folie \ufffd millon - Again!? - (Ashton) - (2) - Aug. 20, 2003, 06:35:37 PM EDT

Re: Folie \ufffd deux.. folie \ufffd millon - Again!? - (bepatient) - (1) - Aug. 21, 2003, 08:20:23 AM EDT

In context of peer (and teacher) pressure and required - (Ashton) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:51:45 AM EDT

Operative word - (Silverlock) - (98) - Aug. 20, 2003, 03:45:58 PM EDT

Agreed - (bepatient) - (97) - Aug. 20, 2003, 04:07:37 PM EDT

Nit picking - (Silverlock) - (95) - Aug. 20, 2003, 04:15:50 PM EDT

No I didn't miss it. - (bepatient) - (94) - Aug. 20, 2003, 04:28:27 PM EDT

(Op iff p) - (FuManChu) - Aug. 20, 2003, 05:25:30 PM EDT

I don't think I could disagree more - (Silverlock) - (92) - Aug. 21, 2003, 10:40:25 AM EDT

Well we will disagree entirely here. - (bepatient) - (35) - Aug. 21, 2003, 10:51:43 AM EDT

No it isn't. - (pwhysall) - (34) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:17:23 AM EDT

No that not what he said. - (bepatient) - (33) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:28:33 AM EDT

Re: No that not what he said. - (pwhysall) - (25) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:31:13 AM EDT

Its not... - (bepatient) - (24) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:49:23 AM EDT

Re: Its not... - (pwhysall) - (22) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:59:25 AM EDT

Now we see... - (bepatient) - (9) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:29:45 PM EDT

Say it ain't so. - (pwhysall) - (8) - Aug. 21, 2003, 04:53:30 PM EDT

Nazis killed people - (bluke) - (3) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:03:39 PM EDT

Got link? - (Silverlock) - (2) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:54:54 PM EDT

OT: while looking for link, found this: - (Arkadiy) - (1) - Aug. 22, 2003, 10:13:39 AM EDT

I don't quite grok his comment, - (Ashton) - Aug. 22, 2003, 07:04:37 PM EDT

I want the tax dollars... - (bepatient) - (3) - Aug. 22, 2003, 08:15:30 AM EDT

I find it ironic... - (admin) - (2) - Aug. 22, 2003, 09:36:28 AM EDT

Aye Cap'n...there's the rub. -NT - (bepatient) - Aug. 22, 2003, 09:44:10 AM EDT

That is ever the danger of the uninformed literal mind. -NT - (Ashton) - Aug. 22, 2003, 07:29:47 PM EDT

You are being misdirected - (mhuber) - (11) - Aug. 24, 2003, 02:36:17 AM EDT

At Last:___The CRUX of the matter! -NT - (Ashton) - Aug. 25, 2003, 04:34:00 PM EDT

You didn't know my chess coach. ;) -NT - (inthane-chan) - Aug. 25, 2003, 07:08:47 PM EDT

Exactly - (Silverlock) - (8) - Aug. 25, 2003, 11:07:35 PM EDT

Oh no, you don't. - (admin) - (4) - Aug. 25, 2003, 11:11:26 PM EDT

Try this word - (Silverlock) - (3) - Aug. 25, 2003, 11:13:35 PM EDT

Try this one: - (admin) - (2) - Aug. 25, 2003, 11:16:14 PM EDT

Response noted - (Silverlock) - (1) - Aug. 25, 2003, 11:27:30 PM EDT

Substantively different in kind - (admin) - Aug. 25, 2003, 11:33:01 PM EDT

Oy shift this crap into politics - (boxley) - (2) - Aug. 26, 2003, 09:26:49 PM EDT

That would be unconstitutional ;-) -NT - (bepatient) - (1) - Aug. 27, 2003, 06:56:57 AM EDT

Spoken like a Strict deConstructionist. . . -NT - (Ashton) - Aug. 27, 2003, 03:49:24 PM EDT

It is not the function of government at all. - (Ashton) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:13:12 PM EDT

Get it straight - (Silverlock) - (5) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:58:15 AM EDT

You've entirely missed the point of church-state separation - (deSitter) - (4) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:11:02 PM EDT

Re: You've entirely missed the point of church-state separat - (Ashton) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:27:52 PM EDT

Quibble about liberalism - (jake123) - (2) - Aug. 21, 2003, 06:28:33 PM EDT

yes - (deSitter) - (1) - Aug. 21, 2003, 07:13:48 PM EDT

A great Stine cartoon has graced my reefer for ages - (Ashton) - Aug. 22, 2003, 01:47:11 AM EDT

Good News Club v Milford Central Schools (1998) - (Another Scott) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:59:39 AM EDT

Can "Anti-Creationism Alliance" meet in the school gym? -NT - (Arkadiy) - (40) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:28:29 AM EDT

Why not. -NT - (bepatient) - (1) - Aug. 21, 2003, 11:28:56 AM EDT

I know your answer - (Arkadiy) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:16:18 PM EDT

It already does - (Silverlock) - (6) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:20:15 PM EDT

So, it's OK to advance the cause of Atheism on Govt property - (Arkadiy) - (5) - Aug. 21, 2003, 01:35:14 PM EDT

Not my point at all - (Silverlock) - (3) - Aug. 21, 2003, 01:49:56 PM EDT

Sorry. - (Arkadiy) - (2) - Aug. 21, 2003, 02:03:29 PM EDT

Which question? - (Silverlock) - (1) - Aug. 21, 2003, 03:02:19 PM EDT

Both, please? - (Arkadiy) - Aug. 22, 2003, 10:05:34 AM EDT

Umm we've had the 'A-theism' discussion several times - (Ashton) - Aug. 22, 2003, 01:55:21 AM EDT

Here's where I stand. - (inthane-chan) - (30) - Aug. 21, 2003, 12:42:44 PM EDT

Only the very best representatives - (Arkadiy) - Aug. 21, 2003, 01:37:48 PM EDT

Britney Spears. - (pwhysall) - Aug. 21, 2003, 04:58:10 PM EDT

Science is religion - (jake123) - Aug. 21, 2003, 06:35:39 PM EDT

Where I disagree with you - (Silverlock) - (26) - Aug. 21, 2003, 09:52:23 PM EDT

Discrimination - (bluke) - (24) - Aug. 22, 2003, 03:35:10 AM EDT

you answer your own question - (Silverlock) - (23) - Aug. 22, 2003, 11:54:00 AM EDT

Perversion of the Constitution. - (admin) - (22) - Aug. 22, 2003, 12:12:36 PM EDT

See my response to Beep - (Silverlock) - (21) - Aug. 22, 2003, 12:35:21 PM EDT

Which part of it? - (admin) - (20) - Aug. 22, 2003, 12:47:25 PM EDT

I don't agree - (Silverlock) - (19) - Aug. 22, 2003, 12:58:11 PM EDT

And its discriminatory. - (bepatient) - Aug. 22, 2003, 01:04:15 PM EDT

Don't see how you can call that logical. - (admin) - (15) - Aug. 22, 2003, 01:28:16 PM EDT

Argument from authority - (Silverlock) - (14) - Aug. 24, 2003, 09:18:29 AM EDT

Wrong. Lame attempt at misdirection. - (admin) - (13) - Aug. 24, 2003, 09:37:20 AM EDT

The law is in regards to faith. - (Silverlock) - (12) - Aug. 25, 2003, 10:26:49 AM EDT

Doesn't matter what the law is about. - (admin) - (11) - Aug. 25, 2003, 10:48:16 AM EDT

Ok - (Silverlock) - (10) - Aug. 25, 2003, 11:58:23 AM EDT

Heh heh... - (bepatient) - (1) - Aug. 25, 2003, 12:07:51 PM EDT

Braap - (Silverlock) - Aug. 25, 2003, 12:11:57 PM EDT

... - (admin) - Aug. 25, 2003, 12:11:49 PM EDT

I agree with your point, Don. - (a6l6e6x) - (6) - Aug. 25, 2003, 12:47:07 PM EDT

Er... *legal* groups. - (admin) - (3) - Aug. 25, 2003, 01:16:21 PM EDT

But ritual animal sacrifice is perfectly legal. - (a6l6e6x) - (2) - Aug. 25, 2003, 02:34:16 PM EDT

Cool... - (bepatient) - Aug. 25, 2003, 02:38:18 PM EDT

Goes in same category as the rest of the legal groups then. -NT - (admin) - Aug. 25, 2003, 02:47:07 PM EDT

And I know those... - (bepatient) - (1) - Aug. 25, 2003, 01:25:47 PM EDT

OK for just now: perhaps made illegal____just after WW-III? -NT - (Ashton) - Aug. 25, 2003, 04:00:14 PM EDT

Um, no . Current case law says the opposite - (mhuber) - (1) - Aug. 24, 2003, 02:44:21 AM EDT

Good, that's how it should be. -NT - (admin) - Aug. 24, 2003, 09:37:58 AM EDT

It seems to have come to 'about that', no? - (Ashton) - Aug. 22, 2003, 03:44:23 AM EDT

Some serious disagreement - (jake123) - (14) - Aug. 21, 2003, 06:25:54 PM EDT

No - (Silverlock) - (13) - Aug. 21, 2003, 10:09:41 PM EDT

That is very nice - (bluke) - (12) - Aug. 22, 2003, 12:26:33 AM EDT

Its outright prejudicial.. - (bepatient) - (11) - Aug. 22, 2003, 08:18:10 AM EDT

You actually believe that? - (Silverlock) - (10) - Aug. 22, 2003, 12:29:33 PM EDT

Admin stated the views adequately above. -NT - (bepatient) - Aug. 22, 2003, 12:58:19 PM EDT

Amtrack is federally subsidized - (Arkadiy) - (3) - Aug. 22, 2003, 12:59:28 PM EDT

He wants his money back ;-) -NT - (bepatient) - Aug. 22, 2003, 01:04:57 PM EDT

Silly, but it does raise an interesting point.. - (hnick) - (1) - Aug. 22, 2003, 01:21:59 PM EDT

Exactly. The motivation should be moot. - (admin) - Aug. 22, 2003, 01:30:36 PM EDT

Riding in the back of the bus - (jake123) - (4) - Aug. 22, 2003, 02:35:20 PM EDT

Where do you draw the line? - (Silverlock) - (3) - Aug. 22, 2003, 04:28:32 PM EDT

Re: Where do you draw the line? - (admin) - (2) - Aug. 22, 2003, 05:10:33 PM EDT

Was that a surrender or a .. Gah !?__:-\ufffd -NT - (Ashton) - (1) - Aug. 22, 2003, 07:48:04 PM EDT

It was an attempt at illogic - (admin) - Aug. 22, 2003, 09:55:43 PM EDT

Declared unconstitutional? - (mhuber) - Aug. 24, 2003, 02:23:07 AM EDT

No free exercise is being touched here - (JayMehaffey) - (2) - Aug. 20, 2003, 08:21:54 PM EDT

Thats not at issue... - (bepatient) - (1) - Aug. 21, 2003, 08:22:01 AM EDT

Good. - (pwhysall) - Aug. 21, 2003, 08:30:24 AM EDT

2 different issues - (JayMehaffey) - (3) - Aug. 20, 2003, 02:39:45 PM EDT

Must disagree with the "remedy". Again. - (Ashton) - (2) - Aug. 20, 2003, 07:03:52 PM EDT

In theory yes - (JayMehaffey) - (1) - Aug. 20, 2003, 08:04:57 PM EDT

Then others' childhood experience was quite different from - (Ashton) - Aug. 20, 2003, 09:22:47 PM EDT

Even in Indiana - it is not required. - (mmoffitt) - Aug. 27, 2003, 05:24:18 PM EDT

Using this formulation, the cat can be dead and deader.
180 ms