Of course, blame the Jews

Post #114,526 by bluke 8/20/03 8:57:36 AM Reply	Of course, blame the Jews It amazes me how Israel is blamed for the all of the ill's of the region. Is it Israel's fault that Saddam invaded Kuwait? Or even the fact that Saddam was in power? Is it Israel's fault that all 22 Arab countries are corrupt dictatorships? Did Israel put Assad in power? Is Israel somehow holding Egypt back? Is Israel somehow preventing the Saudi's from opening up their society? Why is it that Israel with all of the war's has managed to build a modern society with a GDP of $17,000, while absorbing millions of Jewish refugees on a tiny sliver of land with no resources and the arabs have not? Israel is a great scapegoat for the Arab world. The Arab world somehow justifies all kinds of things because of Israel, for example martial law in Syria.
Post #114,561 by bepatient 8/20/03 12:30:32 PM Reply	Lesse... It amazes me how Israel is blamed for the all of the ill's of the region. Is it Israel's fault that Saddam invaded Kuwait? No...but what does that have to do with a) my post and b) bus bombs in Tel Aviv? Or even the fact that Saddam was in power? see above Is it Israel's fault that all 22 Arab countries are corrupt dictatorships? Nope Did Israel put Assad in power? Nope Is Israel somehow holding Egypt back? Nope Is Israel somehow preventing the Saudi's from opening up their society? Nope Why is it that Israel with all of the war's has managed to build a modern society with a GDP of $17,000, while absorbing millions of Jewish refugees on a tiny sliver of land with no resources and the arabs have not? Becasue they are better at applying the billions in aid to productive use than the arabs are at spending their oil money...maybe? Israel is a great scapegoat for the Arab world. The Arab world somehow justifies all kinds of things because of Israel, for example martial law in Syria. The arab world might do this...but I didn't. 2 decades of terrorism against Israel over a 10 mile wide strip of beach that was supposed to be an independent state. Hell...every US major city has its slum right next door...outside of its jursidiction...NY has Newark...Philly has Camden, St Louis has East St Louis etc...cut'em loose ferchrissakes...its more trouble than its worth. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #114,685 by bluke 8/21/03 3:02:08 AM Reply	Barak offered more at Camp David in 2000 ... and look what the answer was. In truth most people in Israel would have no problem with getting rid of the Gaza Strip. However, it would not solve the problem. The Arabs want everything. Nabil Shaath an important minister in the PA stated over the weekend in a speech that of course the Palestinian refugees will be returning to Haifa, Jaffa, etc. They want their own Palestinian state with 0 Jews and then they want to innundate the Jewish state with 3 million Arabs. Their are already 22 Arab states with 99% of the land, do they really need a 23rd state. In addition, the British already created a Palestinian state on 80% of Palestine Jordan. In addition, Hebron, Jerusalem and the other cities in Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) are historic Israel. Jerusalem is where the 2 temples stood, Hebron is where Abraham Issac and Jacob are buried, Nablus, Joseph, Bethlehem, Rachel. These are cities with ancient Jewish conenctions.
Post #114,710 by bepatient 8/21/03 8:32:07 AM Reply	Apparently they do. Becasue that 23rd state has been a demand for quite some time. Nonsense to you? Oh well. Sure there is more involved...rights of those who live and work in Israel, fate of the areas of religious significance in the West Bank...but this consistent stubborn attitude about settlements in gaza and the protection of these by violence against others...does NOT actually look like a willing stance in negotiations. They kill someone, Isreal kills someone...the last few months have both sides pointing at the other and saying "they started it" like a bunch of schoolkids. The Arab League >certainly< shoulders a certain amount of the blame here. But do you honestly expect them to try and solve >any< issue surrounding the creation of Israel? If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #114,717 by bluke 8/21/03 9:47:15 AM 8/21/03 10:17:12 AM Reply	Where was that demand from 1948-1967? Did anyone ask for or try to establish a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza when the Arabs ruled there? No! Who doesn't UN Resolution 242 (1967) talk about a Palestinian state? Because no one dreamed of it. It is only after Israel won the Six Day war which was brought on by the Arabs and the Yom Kippur War (1973) that suddenly the Arabs started demanding a Palestinain state. Here are some links to articles which explains the legal status of the West Bank and Gaza [link\|http://www.freeman.org/m_online/jun01/shusteff2.htm\|THE MYTH OF "OCCUPIED" TERRITORIES] [link\|http://www.netanyahu.org/inlawreglano.html\|THE INTERNATIONAL LAW REGARDING THE LAND OF ISRAEL AND JERUSALEM ] here is a link to the mandate itself [link\|http://www.shalomjerusalem.com/jerusalem/jerusalem73g.html\|1922 LEAGUE OF NATIONS MANDATE] in particular see article 6 " The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes. " it is unfortunate that more people don't know these basic facts. Edited by bluke Aug. 21, 2003, 09:48:32 AM EDT Edited by bluke Aug. 21, 2003, 10:03:56 AM EDT Edited by bluke Aug. 21, 2003, 10:17:12 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #114,724 by bepatient 8/21/03 11:13:30 AM Reply	Prior to 1967 the west back and gaza were occupied by Egypt and Jordan. After 67 Israel "posessed" the Sanai, Golan Heights, the west bank and Gaza. So, you see, the "arabs" didn't need to ask for those areas to be controlled by arabs...because they >were<. ARGENTINA, AUSTRALIA, BELGIUM, BOLIVIA, BRAZIL, CANADA, CHILE, CHINA, COLOMBIA, CUBA, CZECHOSLOVAKIA, DENMARK, EL SALVADOR, FRANCE, GREECE, GUATEMALA, HAITI, HONDURAS, INDIA, ITALY, JAPAN, LIBERIA, NETHERLANDS, NEW ZEALAND, NICARAGUA, NORWAY, PANAMA, PARAGUAY, PERSIA, PERU, POLAND, PORTUGAL, RUMANIA, SIAM, SPAIN, SWEDEN, SWITZERLAND, SOUTH AFRICA, UNITED KINGDOM, URUGUAY, VENEZUELA, YUGOSLAVIA, ALBANIA, AUSTRIA, BULGARIA, COSTA RICA, FINLAND, LUXEMBOURG, ESTONIA, LATVIA, LITHUANIA, HUNGARY What is that you ask? Why its the membership of the league of nations in 1922. I don't notice anyone there even remotely located in the Middle East. Does it surprise you, then, that there is no recognition by these people of decisions made by these organizations? If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #114,761 by Ashton 8/21/03 12:44:28 PM Reply	{cackle} Arabs must be slow.. in slogan-building No ~~Taxation~~ Nation-creation Without Representation! (Catch (19)22 - one must Be a Nation to request Admission or Protest same. Is the Planet unclear on the concept?)
Post #114,778 by bepatient 8/21/03 1:40:16 PM Reply	That would be a problem. But the "nation" existed. Only the lines >we< recognize were not. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #114,814 by bluke 8/21/03 4:38:35 PM 8/21/03 4:46:10 PM Reply	Wait, you mean the Palestinians are just Arabs If so they already have 22 countries. The West Bank and Gaza were controlled by Arabs but not Palestinians, rather Egypt and Jordan. If so why didn't the Palestinians (and the world) demand an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza from 1948-1967 instead of Jordanian and Egyptian rule? The fact is that no one suggested establishing a separate Palestinian state because there never has been one and there never was a separate Palestinian identity until the 1970's. Regarding your second point, all of the Arab countries came into existence based on that same conference. Edited by bluke Aug. 21, 2003, 04:42:42 PM EDT Edited by bluke Aug. 21, 2003, 04:46:10 PM EDT Expand All History

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