5 August 1962

Post #112,826 by rcareaga 8/5/03 7:53:49 PM Reply	5 August 1962 I've yet to see or hear media mention today of the death 41 years ago on this date of Marilyn Monroe, an event that received a fair bit of news play at the time. Anyone else here remember the episode? cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #112,828 by Ashton 8/5/03 8:26:21 PM Reply	Well, natch.. Last I heard anything about MM, more particularly about her death - it remains as unresolved as is 11/22/63 (as to motives and players) and the Official Version remained as generally unbelieved as, say ..that Shrub's/Wolfie's Rush-to-War derived from deep personal empathy with the Suffering Iraqi Peepul. Last version that made any ~sense, that I recall: It appears that she had become a bit tired of being the on-call inflatable-doll of the brothers Kennedy; especially the taken-for-grunted part. Apparently she, as wont to do - took the emotional aspects far more seriously than the Randy-Clan ever took any vagina as came along. She was becoming voluble - and the sex aspect alone would have been enough to despoil the Camelotocracy; there were rumours that she had Other interesting information.. but always we must discount That sort of standard Murican fetish.. (making the case when it Is so? - so much easier to discount) Dissembling is So recursive. So whether or not the lethal bane was inserted into another orifice (as surmised) than in the more Famous case of the King's ear .. is apt to be left to forensic specialists of another era, following exhumation. For someone's PhD. And FOXXX News. (I'm not sure, I see - if she was appropriately rushed to cremation; come to think of it.. Only reason that might? have been avoided would be, that someone was in possession of some document clearly preferring return to Erda) Tragic, lovable, complex (and never ever dumb) person - surely and largest-of-all: the victim of the insatiable maw of the Murican fascination with mammaries and plastic beauty - to exclusion of anything beyond the ol in-out in-out, me Droogies. Meat. (I think she took very hard Gable's death, just after The Misfits - a sobriquet which surely both acknowledged as a common bond.) RIP Norma Jean and skip the stupid Pop-Artlessness posters (Not much seems ever to go on in August, no? The French make it Official, and abandon Paris to the seersucker-suited scavengers)
Post #112,833 by boxley 8/5/03 9:22:04 PM Reply	naah, chitown got even for Bay of Pigs the gal was a party girl, spending time between giancana's crew and the whitehouse and the two factions were definately on the outs by then. Whether depression and one more pill and drinkie poo would make it all go away or a snakesbrew forced injestion either govt paid for or mob enforced or a lady tired of being a tool. My fav is slightly older, Jayne Mansfield who came on all takers wih a smile, a wipe of her chin and a Goldbergsian "Who's Next" thanx. bill questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #112,846 by Ashton 8/5/03 10:27:49 PM Reply	Well, Bill no one can beatcha at reductio crudio - I suspect you could wind something scatological into even string theory. But it wouldn't fly - either. (The most erotic part of the body ain't the gonads - but that Other part has more going on than just those, too. In most.) Fuck/Think - either or?
Post #112,844 by a6l6e6x 8/5/03 10:12:02 PM Reply	Larry King has/had that as topic today w/guests that knew her. I only watched it for a few minutes. All but one guest thought it was an accidental suicide. The one who didn't said that based on two (now dead) sources, including a drunk Peter Lawford, it was no accident. Alex A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. -- George Bernard Shaw
Post #112,847 by Ashton 8/5/03 10:30:13 PM Reply	In vino ____?veritas?
Post #112,849 by deSitter 8/5/03 10:39:45 PM Reply	Re: 5 August 1962 It's sort of not important, like all dates. Also in 1945, something happened. I remembered. I saw a waitress in a tight pink strapless dress, with hips and an insy and short blond hair. -drl
Post #112,901 by rcareaga 8/6/03 9:55:12 AM Reply	Re: 5 August 1962 deSitter opines: "It's sort of not important, like all dates...Also in 1945, something happened." That would be 6 August you're referring to. Dates are unimportant to certain mindsets, significant to others. I fall into the latter category, but I acknowledge that it's merely the eay I've wired self. cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #112,850 by Silverlock 8/5/03 10:42:25 PM Reply	Pikers all Ashton and boxley; Neither of you take into account the Illuminati in your explanation of her demise. Doesn't it make more sense that the fourth brother of the Dillinger quintuplets was the one who offed her? /sarcasm or whatever ----------------------------------------- [link\|http://www.talion.com/questionw.html\|?W] Where were you in 72?
Post #112,853 by Ashton 8/5/03 10:57:36 PM Reply	I thought it was the budding Foulwell, exorcising Divas
Post #112,876 by pwhysall 8/6/03 2:53:01 AM Reply	And it's significant because what? $CELEBRITY shuffled off this mortal coil. So what? Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #112,886 by Ashton 8/6/03 7:34:10 AM Reply	Well.. Aristotle, Einstein were a $CELEBRITY too ;-)
Post #112,907 by inthane-chan 8/6/03 10:51:10 AM Reply	And you're putting M.M.'s accomplishments on a level with ...Einstein and Aristotle? Just curious... And though you hold the keys to ruin of everything I see/With every prison blown to dust, my enemies walk free/Though all the kingdoms turn to sand and fall into the sea/ I'm mad about you I'm mad about you
Post #112,909 by jake123 8/6/03 10:56:17 AM Reply	And you're putting Einstein's and Aristotle's... ... celebrity on a par with Marilyn Monroe's? Forget it, those two are pikers on the celebrity scale compared to her. It's like rock and roll... some people are musicians, some others mere stars. Not the same thing at all, though some people manage to be both, albeit not necessarily at the same time:) --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #113,154 by mhuber 8/7/03 10:29:05 PM Reply	Ever see the movie "insignificance"? Interesting scene where The Actress (obviously MM, but nobody had names in that movie) explains Relativity. I don't exactly reccomend that movie. Good, but very depressing. Came out at the same time as Back To The Future, and was described - before we saw it - by my friend as BTTF for grown-ups. Einstein on at least one occasion (in real life, I don't remember whether he was in that movie or not (No, I mean Insignificance, I'm not getting metaphorical and meaning real life when I say "movie" (Dang - back in The Trade a week and a day and I'm already nesting parenthesis))) listed his occupation as "model". ---- Sometime you the windshield, sometime you the bug, sometime you the driver you turn on the windshield washer you keep going.
Post #113,177 by drewk 8/8/03 8:59:54 AM Reply	OT: "Back in the trade" ? I must have missed it, you're employed++ ? === Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
Post #115,116 by mhuber 8/23/03 11:50:49 PM Reply	Re: OT: "Back in the trade" ? I am. As of the end of July. It is ill-omened: the networking opportunity that got me the job was a discussion of the differences between field slave headwear and house slave headwear. But it is fun so far. I'm doing tech support and documentation for an industrial software company again. A former competitor, more or less. 15 people. Some of the more gung-ho programmers have been known to work as late as 5:30 from time to time. You know, technology built by people who are awake is sometimes good. ---- Sometime you the windshield, sometime you the bug, sometime you the driver you turn on the windshield washer you keep going.
Post #113,224 by Ashton 8/8/03 4:21:02 PM 8/8/03 4:52:13 PM Reply	EInstein possessed that One quality totally-absent in every Dedicated '-Winger' - a nicely developed sense of humour about the machinations of the flock all around.. And I recall that once he replied to a school girl's question - maybe about similar triangles and some relationship (?). He gave a quite clear explanation in plain English; not a patronizing bone in his body. (Damn.. is there anybody Conscious left around, at all?) [image\|http://global.msads.net/ads/10617/0000010617_000000000000000014020.gif\|\|\|\|] [link\|http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/ebert_reviews/1985/08/11354.html\| Insignificance] Edit PS: CONGRATS! on sashaying back into the loony-bin; may your cow orkers be a Rare Breed, one unafflicted with the common diseases-of-Office, for which no pharm-chem has yet been developed.. :-\ufffd Mad Cow Orker Disease Edited by Ashton Aug. 8, 2003, 04:25:10 PM EDT Edited by Ashton Aug. 8, 2003, 04:52:13 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #115,119 by mhuber 8/24/03 12:32:08 AM Reply	Well, thanks I've been there long enough now to know who the real software salesman is. Um, wait, is that kind of like trying to be insulting by calling Lenin a commie? Dang. "Software salesman" is about the best insult I have, short of going into old-fashioned Spanish-Arabic mode and exploring deep questions of metaphorical ancestry. Seems to be a pretty decent place, all the more so because the veneer of professionalism is rather thin and cracked. "Full of courtesy, full of craft" and nobody seems full of courtesy except the CEO. -------------------------- A Ben Franklin quote that a certain plumbing company completely misuses in their very annoying ad. Maybe they don't realize that "craft" isn't short for "craftsmanship". ---- Sometime you the windshield, sometime you the bug, sometime you the driver you turn on the windshield washer you keep going.
Post #115,122 by deSitter 8/24/03 1:00:47 AM Reply	Re: EInstein possessed that One quality totally-absent in At a party hosted by the Einsteins, the great man mentioned to a colleague that a certain person was like time - "always going, never gone". IOW you hit it hard on the head with that reference to E's humor. -drl
Post #112,916 by rcareaga 8/6/03 11:48:23 AM Reply	Re: And it's significant because what? Significant in the larger scheme of things? Of course not. It wouldn't even be particularly significant in today's celebrity-besotted culture. It did loom large to American society in 1962, however--there was a significantly smaller roster of "stars," and among these the MM persona occupied a niche with something very like the force of Archetype (see [link\|http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/08/01/DD282663.DTL\|http://www.sfgate.co...8/01/DD282663.DTL] for a thoughtful recent essay on Gregory Peck--as personification, in the role of Atticus Finch, of the Wise Father--that will convey this rather better than I can). Agamemnon's army would not have been more startled to learn that Aphrodite had been found dead in a hotel room than the US public was 41 years ago. Ten at the time, with the innate conservatism of that age (I was still putting together a picture of the world, and wanted the damned thing to hold still for the inventory), I was flabbergasted: MM had always been there as far as I was concerned, and her abrupt disappearance was more startling in its way than JFK's assassination a year later, since I'd absorbed by 1960 the idea that presidents were transient phenomena. Persons of your present age were affected--much more than you would be if, say Madonna snuffed it of a sudden. The only episode in recent memory that might compare to the social impact of MM's 1962 exit would be the death seven years ago of whatserface, ex-wife of the Prince of Wales. That you might be disposed to sneer is perfectly understandable, but I suspect that your own broad formative influences and experiences have ill-equipped you to appreciate how the memory of the event might resonate decades later. cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #112,921 by jake123 8/6/03 12:48:16 PM Reply	Prolly the death of Kurt Cobain is more apropos than the death of Diana. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #112,922 by Another Scott 8/6/03 12:51:59 PM Reply	Mild disagreement. People who were looking could see Cobain's demise coming. He'd attempted suicide in Italy before the end, IIRC. And he wasn't as big an icon as MM. Diana's death would have been comparable in the UK, IMHO. Marilyn's death was unexpected and she was a huge icon. I don't think even Judy Garland came close to MM's status (though I wasn't around when JG died). Cheers, Scott.
Post #112,924 by rcareaga 8/6/03 1:11:27 PM Reply	Re: Prolly the death of Kurt Cobain is more apropos Don't you think that the social-seismic effect of Cobain's demise was rather more narrowly-focused? It may have resonated with the grunge demographic, but it barely registered in my consciousness (I was 42 at the time), whereas two years later, though I was as little interested in the Windsor soap opera as I'd been in Nirvana, there was no escaping All-Dead-Diana-All-the-Time media saturation for the next week or so (see Granta #60 for an interesting take on this). cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #112,926 by jake123 8/6/03 1:23:39 PM Reply	You mean as opposed to now when I can hear his suicide mentioned at least bi-weekly on the local heavy rock station? They talk about Cobain more than they do about Hendrix. While it may not resonate among the boomers, for GenX it was a huge deal, and still is. The tabloid feeding frenzy around Diana's death (literal, after all) only managed to render her death tawdry, sad to say. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #112,933 by rcareaga 8/6/03 2:03:20 PM Reply	what I meant, actually, was that MM's death resonated across a far broader demographic. But North America in 1962 and North America in 1994 were socially and culturally very different places, of course, the former being far less fragmented: for example, when Buddy Holly was killed in 1959, this was big news to anyone who followed rock & roll, because at that time "rock" occupied a comparatively narrower part of the spectrum of popular music, whereas by the time of Cobain's death the term was all but useless for descriptive purposes, and its audience split among a score of sub-genres--so that for some of us Nirvana was as remote from our musical and cultural experience as, say, Lawrence Welk off in a different direction. cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #112,942 by a6l6e6x 8/6/03 3:02:48 PM Reply	"The Day the Music Died". Alex A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. -- George Bernard Shaw
Post #112,943 by pwhysall 8/6/03 3:03:41 PM Reply	Wasn't that the day the first Monkees album was released? Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #113,058 by tuberculosis 8/7/03 11:37:25 AM 8/21/07 6:41:43 AM Reply	No - start of British Invasion (TM) was TDMD Smalltalk is dangerous. It is a drug. My advice to you would be don't try it; it could ruin your life. Once you take the time to learn it (to REALLY learn it) you will see that there is nothing out there (yet) to touch it. Of course, like all drugs, how dangerous it is depends on your character. It may be that once you've got to this stage you'll find it difficult (if not impossible) to "go back" to other languages and, if you are forced to, you might become an embittered character constantly muttering ascerbic comments under your breath. Who knows, you may even have to quit the software industry altogether because nothing else lives up to your new expectations. --AndyBower Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:41:43 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #113,077 by rcareaga 8/7/03 12:58:56 PM Reply	British Invasion (TM) Interesting notion, and one I first heard advanced, with great bitterness, by a woman friend in the mid-1980s. She held that American rock & roll, a thriving native species, had been fatally tainted and finally overwhelmed by the Brits, beginning with the Beatles, and that even later variants mistaken for home-grown strains (e.g., the "San Francisco" sound) were merely induced mutations. She wasn't a cultural Luddite, exactly--she listened to the current tunes--but her first loyalty was to the vanished doo-wop era, and she always held that a proper rock & roll song should include a saxophone track. cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #113,093 by Ashton 8/7/03 3:05:13 PM Reply	With (Only) one Original exception: Zappa / The Mothers ..most-all the rest - correct me if I missed some lower-level group that escaped the Homogenizer-Blender-Babelizer -?- A u-n-i-f-o-r-m collection of (oft badly-whomped) Whomp-Whomp transistor Gee-tar + plastic-transistor-'piano' sounds and Oh-So-similar lyrics, tempo perfectlyuniformly unvarying unRemittinglyDITTO and p r e d i c t a b l y Invariant dynamic range: \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd --> \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd (so much for there being any emotional content signified by nuanced appeal to sensibilities other than.. chaotic paroxism er NoiseScape) AND.. (only occasionally.. and vaguely-) Music-like SOUNDS. Yup: if a shriek Can be called merely "a SOUND". Or a recurrent whine/whinge.. pathos. Or a 'plaint that - "She! kicked me out 'cause I'm really a iggerant Slime-at-Heart (And What a Bitch She Is for Noticing)" OR.. (Of course too, even in Zappaland.. Cruising for Burgers [in Daddy's new car] does not quite.. achieve the wistfulness level of, say Die Sch\ufffdne Mullerin, but then.. what Does? And Yes: Mothers TOO-LOUD too :( This review brought to you by a consortium of non-rave Reviewers [who usually shake heads, tacitly smarl - and tune-it-out] of the Mondo-crappo which replaced even-Worse-Basiccrap (the Top-10, then Pop-30 then 40) -- and made the RIAA What It Is Today: Soo-Ey! Soo-Ey! A slop-hogs Wholesale IV funnel-feeder of swill to the tone-deaf masses of folks what will Consume Anything* if it's marketed-as-Rilly-BIG-Merde (foreign cachet?), in albums (rhymes with pabulum) with Covers suggesting that . . . [the listener Too! can stick a bar of Lava\ufffd down his genes.. and GetGurrlsToo] * tone-deaf? Make that clinically Profoundly-deaf, by age 30 \ufffd And maybe.. a Good Thing at that. All things considered. Ashton Recondite Rorshak Reviews LLC A Div. of Hunter S. Thompson Spiritual Retreats Ltd. Fad Reviews Rage Reviews Era Reviews (Eon-Reviews - at additional cost. By subscription only.)
Post #113,103 by pwhysall 8/7/03 3:33:14 PM Reply	Juno Reactor Nuff said. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #113,169 by boxley 8/8/03 7:59:11 AM Reply	Dont think so Although some groups that evolved into the 80's big hair bands were strictly Brit enthused, Here are a few that wernt, Alice Cooper, Johnny Winters and his brother Edgar. All the Southern rockabilly bands. ZZtop, Golden Earring, Ramones, Guns n Roses were all American flavored rock groups, Now if you want music, listen to the Blues, Delta or Chitown, that be some music. thanx, Bill questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]

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