Point == missed.

Post #111,042 by inthane-chan 7/23/03 12:04:36 AM Reply	Point == missed. I read 1984 years and years ago in High School, and I didn't like it. I'm not big on anything futuristic where technology rules. There's a line in 1984... (Paraphrased) "I'm not sure it's 1984. In fact, I have no idea when it is." Orwell was writing about real political events occuring in 1948. The story wasn't about the technology - it was about a world where the government dominated every aspect of our lives. Something, that thanks to the vast majority of sheeple out there willing to roll over and ignore George Orwell's warning to us. Government monitoring people using extreme technology is included in that. Then by your inaction, you are aiding to damn the rest of us who seek the pursuit of freedom, instead of slavery. You have forsaken your potential as a human being. And though you hold the keys to ruin of everything I see/With every prison blown to dust, my enemies walk free/Though all the kingdoms turn to sand and fall into the sea/ I'm mad about you I'm mad about you
Post #111,046 by Nightowl 7/23/03 12:24:15 AM Reply	Re: Point == missed. Then by your inaction, you are aiding to damn the rest of us who seek the pursuit of freedom, instead of slavery. You have forsaken your potential as a human being. Huh? Just because I prefer not to read books or see movies where technology rules? Nightowl >8# "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" Comment by Nightowl
Post #111,075 by Ashton 7/23/03 2:43:17 AM Reply	Technology? The stone axe is 'technology'. We are tool-making apes: the %-difference between a Republicrat and a chimpanzee is IIRC <0.1% in the DNA coding (and lots of that contains junk-nodes, so the differences might be smaller yet). What we do is 'make things' -- most often without much concern for the "unintended consequences". Technology is just a fancy name for a Much Larger Way of making useful/not-so-useful/destructive things, none of which much change the meat-aspect at all: we're herd animals and pack animals.. with always a small assortment of odd ones who refuse to join any organization as would Take.. people like them. If you had imagined that 1984 had anything much to do with technology (except as theatre decoration), then it's not even a question: you missed it. All of it. I will grant that you are more aware of that which you don't know - than many, and I offer Brownie points for your forthrightness. I haven't walked in your moccasins or experienced the early conditioning of your parents, so I can't guess whether your current disinterest in what-you-call politics is inborn - or? a result of rather too-few hours of being read to and possibly.. having been ensconced in front of a Tee Vee for many hours - this in lieu of sincere adult Attention and efforts to wake you up, and keep you awake. But there's always hope. 'Politics' is supposed to be about ~ every aspect of the "social contract" we are born into, yet - Can Change - if, and when 'we' (enough of 'us') see a need to. To be not-interested in "how you live" / the rules and their effects - as determine all options available to you: is to freely surrender your voice along with the chances which you might have helped create for yourself and for others. Those books, which you have also found to be of little interest, are the means by which we are able to evade mistakes - for learning just how many and what kind were already made - it's a great time and energy saver, you see? And it's never too late to begin catching up. And since this IS America, the land of Disneyland Dreams Tee Vee and large noise-background all the time: it wouldn't be long before you surpassed the experience of many of your contemporaries. So.. "catching up" really isn't all that hard. There are many libraries (for a while yet) and librarians are a special breed: they love to answer sincere queries and point people to decent short-cuts to catching up - whatever the topic. Librarians are among the more underappreciated people around, especially in this now post-literate era. Still and all - no one can supply Interest. That comes from inside or it doesn't. There are no 'shoulds' about that, though. Simply, those who do have Interests find the perpetually disinterested to be - boring at best. This may be why groups form around Interests. And the others go to chat rooms to say everything about nothing. A member of one group will not be very comfortable in the other, but people are generally more than happy whenever a person "wants to change groups?" - it implies that something is Alive there. The snide remarks cease, under such circumstances :-) Lastly, as to 'books' - [link\|http://www.classicnote.com/ClassicNotes/Titles/fahrenheit/\| Fahrenheit 451] (the kindling temperature of newsprint) may give you an idea of the appreciation for books in a situation which -- seems eerily close-to where we seem to be heading. It's available in a superb movie or best of all: in print by the author. It's a rollicking good tale, in any case - but as always: you have to supply its 'meaning'. Bon appetit, Ashton who once.. had read neither 1984 nor Fahrenheit 451. Too.
Post #111,116 by Nightowl 7/23/03 10:49:00 AM Reply	Re: Technology? The stone axe is 'technology'. ... Technology is just a fancy name for a Much Larger Way of making useful/not-so-useful/ destructive things, none of which much change the meat-aspect at all: Perhaps I should have clarified. Computer technology. Yes, I know I'm typing on a computer right now, but honestly, there was a time when I was terrified of computers, I believed they were capable of taking me over and running my life and everyone else's just by sitting there. Now I'm smarter, but things like computer controlled houses still give me the heebie jeebies. I was shown what computers could do, i.e. make words appear on a screen and then come out on paper, and that is what drew me to them finally, and allowed me to trust them some, the desire to put words on screen and paper. If you had imagined that 1984 had anything much to do with technology (except as theatre decoration), then it's not even a question: you missed it. All of it. Oh well, I read it years ago, and I was never big on sci fi futuristic stuff, i.e. the end of the world, nuclear destruction, or farming the moon. I like some Sci Fi stuff but the hard core sci fi just bored and confused me, as a rule, with a few notable exceptions like The Forever War, The War Of The Worlds, etc. I will grant that you are more aware of that which you don't know - than many, and I offer Brownie points for your forthrightness. I haven't walked in your moccasins or experienced the early conditioning of your parents, so I can't guess whether your current disinterest in what-you-call politics is inborn - or? a result of rather too-few hours of being read to and possibly.. having been ensconced in front of a Tee Vee for many hours - this in lieu of sincere adult Attention and efforts to wake you up, and keep you awake. I'll have you know I read/and still do, alot more than you give me credit for. I was addicted to TV once as a child and decided it was a bad thing. I weaned myself away from hours and hours of TV one step at a time, till I cut down an entire day to night viewing to about 10 programs. Now I currently watch about 5 types of TV, including many daily newscasts because I'm very interested in news. I watch one Soap Opera, and it is the #1 on the list, and I watch a couple drama shows, no sitcoms, no silly reality shows, and no talk shows other than Dr. Phil and occasionally David Letterman. I am a history buff, and politics always intertwine with History, but honestly it gets too jumbled for me to completely ever understand, and I simply got tired of it and focused on the military and other actions regarding History, rather than most of the political stuff. I have tried to understand politics, found it more frustrating than it's worth, and still have trouble remembering what is left and right wing, and etc. But there's always hope. 'Politics' is supposed to be about ~ every aspect of the "social contract" we are born into, yet - Can Change - if, and when 'we' (enough of 'us') see a need to. To be not-interested in "how you live" / the rules and their effects - as determine all options available to you: is to freely surrender your voice along with the chances which you might have helped create for yourself and for others. I realize that by not voting, I don't have a right to complain if I don't like the circumstances. So, I don't complain, I cope. Honestly, even when I DO vote and it doesn't go the way I would like, I still don't complain. I make the best of it. Those books, which you have also found to be of little interest, are the means by which we are able to evade mistakes - for learning just how many and what kind were already made - it's a great time and energy saver, you see? And it's never too late to begin catching up. And since this IS America, the land of Disneyland Dreams Tee Vee and large noise-background all the time: it wouldn't be long before you surpassed the experience of many of your contemporaries. So.. "catching up" really isn't all that hard. There are many libraries (for a while yet) and librarians are a special breed: they love to answer sincere queries and point people to decent short-cuts to catching up - whatever the topic. Librarians are among the more underappreciated people around, especially in this now post-literate era. I am in love with books. I probably have more books in my house than most people, probably akin to a small library, and I honestly would appreciate you not making assumptions about whether I read or not. I read almost everything, all the time, including my daily newspapers, and I appreciate the written word over any other media, including the computer. I wanted to be a librarian once, but someone made sure that could never happen without a great deal of repair so I lost some of my respect for the genre. But I know librarians answer questions, and I also am very good at seeking answers on the internet, through what I call "fishing" However, I have to know what I'm seeking answers to, and some of the things said in here aren't clear enough to look up, so I ask John and he assists me in paraphrasing much of it. Still and all - no one can supply Interest. That comes from inside or it doesn't. There are no 'shoulds' about that, though. Simply, those who do have Interests find the perpetually disinterested to be - boring at best. This may be why groups form around Interests. And the others go to chat rooms to say everything about nothing. Like Math, which I took, took again, took a third time and still cannot master without doing each problem 5 times and taking the answer I get the most times, I choose not to deal with most political issues, because of the level of frustration it causes me. It's not a matter of just interest, it's a matter of frustration, and having no serious need to understand it since I do not vote about every little issue in my government or community, and because even if you know what the politicians are saying, you never know if they are telling the truth, so why bother. So If I'm boring because I don't care much for politics, I am sorry, I don't usually get into any sort of conversation about this but I felt I had something to contribute, and I did. Nightowl >8# "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" Comment by Nightowl
Post #111,187 by Ashton 7/23/03 8:02:07 PM Reply	Well, that clears it up. You might be surprised to hear - I bought my Osborne1, the first practical toy computer - for exactly the same purpose: words. A Wang\ufffd 'wordprocessor' {ugly Idea, That} was a bloated, overpriced inaccessible thing - and soon.. Wang died. (I despise spreadsheets - to me they epitomize the reduction of All Life to the simplistic, juvenile mindset of a bottom line) and further symbolize the diseducation of the basketweaving CPA/Econ courses. (A radical Capitalist idea of a pretend- Ed-ja-Kay'-shun) Many folks re-read books, periodically. Shakespeare is the obv. example - since, as we grow, occasionally we even grow Up. Since you're older now, possibly another read of both mentioned books.. might permit you to skip the mantra, sciencefiction-Idon'tlike Thosethings-SoIwon'tlikeThis and read for comprehension of the Society Matters.. maybe along with a quick reread of the Constitution of the US and especially, The Bill of Rights. For perspective: Then (a few years ago, even) and Now. (Those last two are pretty brief.) If none of it still makes sense, turns on any Lights then? Well, you tried. But as always: your call. Oh: indeed, people lie all the time! especially to themselves (practice makes perfect). Your task is to look for the symptoms and each day get better at that - or just.. never mind. Ashton
Post #111,193 by Nightowl 7/23/03 9:07:48 PM Reply	Re: Well, that clears it up. You might be surprised to hear - I bought my Osborne1, the first practical toy computer - for exactly the same purpose: words. A Wang? 'wordprocessor' {ugly Idea, That} was a bloated, overpriced inaccessible thing - and soon.. Wang died. Kewl! I started with an Apple IIE, myself and I still have it and it still works. :) (I despise spreadsheets - to me they epitomize the reduction of All Life to the simplistic, juvenile mindset of a bottom line) and further symbolize the diseducation of the basketweaving CPA/Econ courses. (A radical Capitalist idea of a pretend- Ed-ja-Kay'-shun) I only like Spreadsheets because I can make them alphabetize and organize. I haven't yet figured out Access to the point where I can manipulate it like I would like, but I have learned a lot more about tables in Word that work similar to the spreadsheets in regards to columns and rows. Many folks re-read books, periodically. Shakespeare is the obv. example - since, as we grow, occasionally we even grow Up. Since you're older now, possibly another read of both mentioned books.. might permit you to skip the mantra, sciencefiction-Idon'tlike Thosethings-SoIwon'tlikeThis I suppose I can consider it, but I'll be honest. I have probably over 100 books waiting to be read. I have books about historical things like ship wrecks, and the Oklahoma Bombing, and 9/11 to read, books about jobs and coping with mean bosses and dealing with people on the job to read, a number of Star Wars books to read, several self-help books to read, including the recent ones about Migraines, a book I'm still reading and dealing with with my counselor about Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, and many many more books from movies, or about life events, or just funny in general. I'm also still reading "The Forever Peace" with my husband out loud, which is the sequel to the "Forever War." Not trying to be a smart aleck, but I have a lot to read someday, and I am still acquiring more all the time. That doesn't even touch the magazines and other miscellaneous things I get or am given to read. I probably have about 12 books started right now, as I read them in various places and at various times. I'll be honest though, one of the reasons I stopped reading hard core Sci Fi was it gave me nightmares. And that's also one of the reasons I've hesitated to read some of the historical things, and only read them during the daytime, so I don't go to bed with say, the World Trade Disaster on my mind. and read for comprehension of the Society Matters.. maybe along with a quick reread of the Constitution of the US and especially, The Bill of Rights. For perspective: Then (a few years ago, even) and Now. (Those last two are pretty brief.) I believe I reread the constitution just last year when John and I looked something up, but I can't swear it. If none of it still makes sense, turns on any Lights then? Well, you tried. But as always: your call. Yep, and my main goal this next 6 months is to try and get back in the employment game... although I must admit, I'm still very hesitant and very scared. Nightowl >8# "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" Comment by Nightowl

Welcome to IWETHEY!