Post #107,488
6/27/03 9:30:29 AM
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"Paranoia strikes deep..."
This is not a rant about the Supreme court finding that the Tejano anti-sodomy law is unconstitutional, it is rather a rant about the complete and utter paranoia expoused by that pillar of "conservative thinking" [warning: oxymoron alert!], Tony Scalia. From his minority opinion which (of course) objects to the Court striking down yet another Tejano absurdity: Today's opinion is the product of a court, which is the product of a law-profession culture, that has largely signed on to the so-called homosexual agenda, by which I mean the agenda promoted by some homosexual activists directed at eliminating the moral opprobrium that has traditionally attached to homosexual conduct. ... One of the most revealing statements in today's opinion is the court's grim warning that the criminalization of homosexual conduct is `an invitation to subject homosexual persons to discrimination both in the public and in the private spheres.' It is clear from this that the court has taken sides in the culture war, departing from its role of assuring, as neutral observer, that the democratic rules of engagement are observed. Many Americans do not want persons who openly engage in homosexual conduct as partners in their business, as Scoutmasters for their children, as teachers in their children's schools, or as boarders in their home. They view this as protecting themselves and their families from a lifestyle that they believe to be immoral and destructive. It would be nice if somebody in a position such as Tony's would once and for all discard the shopworn stereotypes, and instead couch their objections to homosexual behavior in logical, unemotional terms. (Oh, wait...there aren't any logical, unemotional objections to homosexual behavior...)jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
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Post #107,489
6/27/03 9:36:20 AM
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Re: "Paranoia strikes deep..."
Scalia: But persuading one's fellow citizens is one thing, and imposing one's views in absence of democratic majority will is something else. I thought the checks and balances of our system were partly to insure that the majority doesn't run roughshod over the minority... Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #107,494
6/27/03 10:01:31 AM
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Good point...one that is often (if not always) lost when...
...you are part of the "majority" and are "on a mission from God".
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
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Post #107,704
6/28/03 2:48:03 PM
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they published it
[link|http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/editorial/outlook/1971009|Chronicle Viewpoints] 5th one down.
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #107,499
6/27/03 10:11:21 AM
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He got a couple slams in on us up here too
due to our recent Ontario Supreme Court decision that invalidates the existing law restricting marriage to het couples, and the subsequent decision by the federal gov to rewrite the law to permit same sex marriage.
While there's been a lot of noise made in the press by various religious types, the "street" up here largely sees this as "about time".
The way things are going up here, you'll be able to come up to the big Stones concert in T.O. on July 30th, smoke a rope whilst sitting next to a cop, as you watch gays getting married by the Toronto Metropolitan Church on a side stage.
Sometimes I think the raft of recent decisions up here is just to tweak the noses of the freaks you guys have running the show down there these days.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #107,504
6/27/03 10:20:16 AM
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same here
the "street" up here largely sees this as "about time". [link|http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/1969504|Houston Chronicle article] has a poll - currently showing 78% supporting the Supreme Court decision. Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #107,508
6/27/03 10:25:31 AM
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If marriage is a religious thingy
why is the gummint involved at all? Separation of church and state should forbid States from enacting any religious ceremonies. Much less dictating who can take part in them.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
As the Poets have mournfully sung.
Death takes the innocent young,
The rolling in money,
the screamingly funny,
And those who are very well hung.
W.H. Auden
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Post #107,512
6/27/03 10:46:13 AM
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The current and new law
dictate nothing to any given church; that's up to the pastor/reverend/priest/whatever. The Toronto Metropolitan Church has been willing to hold "marriage ceremonies" for gay/lesbian couples for years, minus the "power vested in me by the ... government of Canada" and signing the registry parts. They can add them back in now when marrying same sex couples.
I personally doubt very much that you're going to find many gay marriages down at the local Catholic or Anglican cathedrals... but saying that there's no state dimension to marriage is completely bogus when you consider the huge ramifications it has for taxes.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #107,513
6/27/03 10:48:33 AM
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More than religious
Marriage is also a civil contract which is where the state gets involved.
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[link|http://www.talion.com/questionw.html|?W]
Where were you in 72?
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Post #107,526
6/27/03 11:09:47 AM
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So civil contracts can be restrained by sex?
wuzzup wid that? Since prenups, civil suits, paternity suits and contract law can cover all of the above I think the state should relinquish any interest in tracking marriages. In the old days that was how paternity was determined, DNA testing takes care of that. No reason for state involved marriages at all.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
As the Poets have mournfully sung.
Death takes the innocent young,
The rolling in money,
the screamingly funny,
And those who are very well hung.
W.H. Auden
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Post #107,543
6/27/03 12:05:46 PM
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That's not what I was saying
I was only pointing out that the church/state separation angle doesn't apply. Sex restrictions on a contract? I don't see how the state could justify it. Realistically though, the religious theme is an undercurrent of many laws. If you support separation of church and state, how do you justify Sunday bans on booze or other retail sales?
-----------------------------------------
[link|http://www.talion.com/questionw.html|?W]
Where were you in 72?
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Post #107,547
6/27/03 12:11:43 PM
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I dont believe in restrictions
If Denny's can stay open 24X7 so should Al's Sports Bar. Thats why I love Reno Nevada, work all night and have a beer after work at 8:30am.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
As the Poets have mournfully sung.
Death takes the innocent young,
The rolling in money,
the screamingly funny,
And those who are very well hung.
W.H. Auden
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Post #107,596
6/27/03 6:15:44 PM
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A little craziness for you...
I think you'll find that the "state" doesn't want to sanction this, 'cause the insurance industry doesn't want to cover same sex partners (if they can get away with it - which they have for a long time) nor do they ("states") want to pay spousal medicaid, SS, etc. to people they have historically gotten a free ride with (anywhere between a 3% to 10% / 2 hit).
In any case, I bet it would cost the "state" lots of money, no?
Just a few thoughts,
Screamer
But take your time, think a lot,
Why, think of everything you've got.
For you will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not.
Y. Islam - Father and Son
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Post #107,587
6/27/03 5:06:07 PM
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Re: He got a couple slams in on us up here too
Heh..
Go... Canada !!!
{cackle} Some of us Muricans will settle-for Guts about the Emperor's New Clothes wherever we can find it; there's so little of it hereabouts.
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Post #108,069
7/1/03 2:12:51 PM
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Hey, tweak away, buddy!
The scenario you paint sounds way too good to be true.
Where do I sign up???
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
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Post #107,501
6/27/03 10:15:30 AM
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One should mention..
..that the pee-Resident supported the mediaeval Texas laws while gee-Overnor of that state.
(Personally, I think the idea of homo-marriage is ridiculous, but people are entitled to be ridiculous. And, as Woody Allen said, it's a miracle people survive ONE mother..)
-drl
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