Post #102,017
5/15/03 8:06:03 AM
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Another question
Why the extra parallel port? Why not just get a USB printer?
/me continues the campaign to rid computers of evil like PS/2 mice and keyboards, and parallel printers. Serial ports have a place.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #102,020
5/15/03 8:23:58 AM
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What about...
Those back-only mounted mic and speaker jacks. There should be a Headphone jack on every computer front now. Heck even eMachines has them on them.
Also, a few more Front-USB ports would be good to. At least 2. Sure, I understand MOST things will be used continuously, those should be in the back. But for things like Tablets, Cameras, hand scanners, Keyboards(musical that is), personal juke-boxes (the Archos comes to mind), memory storage devices. ALOT of things will begin to need front mounted USB ports.
Frick, we could go to all USB for HID, or even all devices except for network and internal storage. When they finally work out a couple of minor things then even those could be USB.
| [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] |
THEY ARE WATCHING YOU. The time has come for you to take the last step. You must love THEM. It is not enough to obey THEM. You must love THEM. PEACE BEGETS WAR, SLAVERY IS FREEDOM, STRENGTH IN IGNORANCE.
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Post #102,022
5/15/03 8:27:45 AM
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Agreed.
USB should be the one standard for all HID devices, and even low-bandwidth devices like CDRW and floppy disks (may they rot in hell).
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #102,088
5/15/03 12:16:43 PM
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Re: What about...
Those back-only mounted mic and speaker jacks. There should be a Headphone jack on every computer front now. Heck even eMachines has them on them. Also, a few more Front-USB ports would be good to. At least 2. Sure, I understand MOST things will be used continuously, those should be in the back. But for things like Tablets, Cameras, hand scanners, Keyboards(musical that is), personal juke-boxes (the Archos comes to mind), memory storage devices. ALOT of things will begin to need front mounted USB ports. There are some nice ports on the front of Nikolai's case, but I don't know what specifically they are. I only plug my headphone into his dual speakers. :) Again, I can ask John what the front ports are when he gets home. Nightowl >8# "Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #102,052
5/15/03 9:49:27 AM
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Re: Another question
Yes, I think we can lose the parallel port, but the hard-interrupt mouse and keyboard are essential IMO. I think you want the keyboard with the highest priority interrupt. I was rather disappointed with my USB Trackpoint keyboard.
-drl
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Post #102,074
5/15/03 10:57:31 AM
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Well, I see quite the opposite.
I am getting better response and tacitile feel from my USB mice and keyboard. Yes, Mice. I have a standard three button M$ optical wheel mouse for gaming and a Kensington Orbit for everything else.
The Keyboard I use is a "Memorex" spill-proof USB keyboard. I have gone to Spill-proof keyboards as a matter of course, mainly my 16 year-old and now 10 year old have roached quite a few already... accidentally. $12 at Best-Buy on sale. $19.95 when not.
Summary, USB Mice and Keyboards are VERY VERY zippy. Better than hard Interruptted ones. Proven, even recently with me typing in a gabber session with a PS/2 keyboard... it gabber sometimes has 4 second pause on my typing when using the PS/2 keyboard. USB Keyboard... haven't had narry a pause yet.
| [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] |
THEY ARE WATCHING YOU. The time has come for you to take the last step. You must love THEM. It is not enough to obey THEM. You must love THEM. PEACE BEGETS WAR, SLAVERY IS FREEDOM, STRENGTH IN IGNORANCE.
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Post #102,091
5/15/03 12:22:27 PM
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Re: Well, I see quite the opposite.
I am getting better response and tacitile feel from my USB mice and keyboard. Yes, Mice. I have a standard three button M$ optical wheel mouse for gaming and a Kensington Orbit for everything else. The Keyboard I use is a "Memorex" spill-proof USB keyboard. I have gone to Spill-proof keyboards as a matter of course, mainly my 16 year-old and now 10 year old have roached quite a few already... accidentally. $12 at Best-Buy on sale. $19.95 when not. Hmmm I don't know what keyboard and mouse I actually have. I know the mouse is an optical MS mouse but I don't know what port it uses. And I know the keyboard is a standard Windows one, but I don't know what it is either. I do know that the monitor is a Viewsonic A-70 and I love it. :) My mouse and keyboard do fine for me, so I guess I'm happy. We used the same ones Andrei was using. (And monitor and speakers). Nightowl >8# "Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #102,094
5/15/03 12:29:23 PM
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Re: Well, I see quite the opposite.
Well, I had a lot of trouble getting USB hotplugging to work right on my Thinkpad under 2.4.18 - I haven't had time to look at 2.4.20, but I will.
One nice thing about my USB kbd - it has a light-year long cord, so I can surf in glorious repose, with being hunkered over the machine.
-drl
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Post #102,079
5/15/03 11:18:43 AM
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I agree with you on this, for both mouse and keyboard
I tried USB (my current mouse is a usb with an adaptor to ps/2) and found that the response was a lot slower.
Since I'm a SCSI addict, so giving up two interrupts to my primary means of interfacing with the computer doesn't have huge evil ramifications for me.
USB is very good for some stuff; the new MSD drivers coming out for OS/2 mean that mass storage devices like cameras, thumb drives, etc, are all working quite nicely, and for those sorts of things USB is an excellent interface. Now if only we could get some good firewire stuff happening ....
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #102,080
5/15/03 11:20:03 AM
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I differ.
You all know that I'm a gamer. Good mouse response is vital to my computing happiness.
USB beats the pants off PS/2 in my humble O. Smoother, sharper.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #102,087
5/15/03 12:12:53 PM
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Re: Another question
I don't know the difference between printers. I have two printers, one that is about to quit and might have to be replaced (which will be the first priority), it's a Xerox Docuprint XJ6C named Xavier. The second printer is an Epson LQ-570+ maybe it was what needed the second parallel port, not sure. I'll ask John when he gets home though.
I don't know what a USB printer is, I know the difference between an inkjet and a dot matrix, but that's about it. ;)
Nightowl >8#
P.S. We are considering buying an HP 3820 Inkjet to replace Xavier though.
"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #102,121
5/15/03 2:32:52 PM
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USB Printers
USB is Universal Serial Bus, it is a new type of connector they came up with to replace serial and parallel ports. Even PS/2 ports as well can be replaced with them. It didn't become popular until the Apple iMac started using them and more USB devices came out. The iMac got rid of ADB and Serial ports (and SCSI ports) and used USB instead. Some PC makers wanted to do this as well, but the idea didn't go that far.
USB is great for keyboards, mice, joysticks, and printers, as well as other devices. It is a smaller plug than even a serial 9 pin plug, and it is usually found in the back next to the PS/2 ports, or in the front of the machine if you have a case that allows it. The USB connectors can be connected via a Hub, which is like a way of splitting up the signal so that you can use more USB devices.
For more USB information:
[link|http://www.usb.org/faq|http://www.usb.org/faq]
"If you're going to cheat, cheat fair. If there's anything I hate it's a crooked crook!" -Moe Howard
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Post #102,163
5/15/03 8:38:59 PM
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Re: USB Printers
Thanks for the explanation, Norman.
Okay then, here goes.
We have two USB ports on the front of Nikolai, and four in the back.
But the only USB device we currently own is the HP Scanjet 3400C Scanner.
My mouse and keyboard are both PS/2 plugs at this time, but the mouse can be adapted to be a USB mouse if we desire at some point.
Also both printers are currently parallel ports. I don't know what the new printer we are considering uses.
And regarding the graphics card, we have had problems with Radeons before, so we tried something different, and I was correct in that he bought a cheap one for now because it's not very important to me.
Hope that answered everything. :)
Nightowl >8#
"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #102,176
5/15/03 11:15:18 PM
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Re: USB Printers
Most modern printers offer a USB option and may have both USB and Parallel port connections. Your milage may vary, check the printer out before you buy it. If it is USB, you can get rid of that extra Parallel port.
I've had problems with Radeons and other ATI cards before. The one you have is great for what you are doing. Not the best, but good enough unless you are getting into the latest and greatest 3D gaming worlds, which I doubt you are. I have a (gasp) Nivida TNT2 AGP card myself, which is nowhere near as good as the card you have.
But then I don't get into Everquest and other 3D gaming software. I only have a 700Mhz Cleron with 128M of RAM and a 15Gig hard drive, which by the standards of your machine, mine is a doorstop already. But it is good enough for me to check email on it, and surf the web, and maybe play some 2D video games from time to time. Since I am on disability, I'll have to save up a long time to get a new system. My brother is upgrading his Pentium III 1.0 Ghz system to a Pentium 4 2.4Ghz and I might buy his leftover parts.
"If you're going to cheat, cheat fair. If there's anything I hate it's a crooked crook!" -Moe Howard
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Post #102,181
5/16/03 12:37:49 AM
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Re: USB Printers
Most modern printers offer a USB option and may have both USB and Parallel port connections. Your milage may vary, check the printer out before you buy it. If it is USB, you can get rid of that extra Parallel port. I am considering the HP 3820 printer. I'll look into the ports, but it really doesn't matter to me too much. :) I'm not gonna get rid of the parallel port as long as I have Epstein (the Epscon LQ printer and Xavier (The Xerox one). Plus, the parallel ports aren't in the way of the USB ports, they are alongside I think. I've had problems with Radeons and other ATI cards before. The one you have is great for what you are doing. Not the best, but good enough unless you are getting into the latest and greatest 3D gaming worlds, which I doubt you are. I have a (gasp) Nivida TNT2 AGP card myself, which is nowhere near as good as the card you have. Exactly, the two games I play most are Solitaire (comes with Windows) and Block Breaker, (a newer version of Breakout). John wants to play Monkey Island three on here, and we got a card that was supposedly compatible to that. All I know is I was tickled to death that the card we got runs "James Cameron's Titanic Explorer," WHEEE FINALLY! But then I don't get into Everquest and other 3D gaming software. I only have a 700Mhz Cleron with 128M of RAM and a 15Gig hard drive, which by the standards of your machine, mine is a doorstop already. But it is good enough for me to check email on it, and surf the web, and maybe play some 2D video games from time to time. Since I am on disability, I'll have to save up a long time to get a new system. My brother is upgrading his Pentium III 1.0 Ghz system to a Pentium 4 2.4Ghz and I might buy his leftover parts. Well, I feel like my computer is HIGH CLASS for me, and the things I want it for, but John decided he was gonna build something GOOD that would LAST and he could fix or adjust himself since he built it.... and Nikolai was born :) I hope you get to upgrade yours soon if you need to. I'm just so happy mine doesn't crash anymore like it was, that I could do cartwheels if I had the ability to do them! Nightowl >8# "Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #102,318
5/16/03 5:07:51 PM
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The primary concern with parallel
is that each port is taking (usually sharing with something else) an IRQ. So with two parallel ports, you're using two IRQs. With USB, you're using one IRQ for however many USB devices (up to 127 in theory) are connected.
This isn't usually a grave concern though as current computers can share IRQs fairly well (though it's best to avoid sharing with the graphics card).
There are adapters out that will allow you to connect parallel printers to USB ports, so if you do decide to move to an all USB setup, you may still be able to use your old trusty printers.
Just something to consider.
~~~)-Steven----
"I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country..."
General George S. Patton
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Post #102,323
5/16/03 6:29:01 PM
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Re: The primary concern with parallel
is that each port is taking (usually sharing with something else) an IRQ. So with two parallel ports, you're using two IRQs. With USB, you're using one IRQ for however many USB devices (up to 127 in theory) are connected. Hmmmm what is an IRQ? How many does a computer have? This isn't usually a grave concern though as current computers can share IRQs fairly well (though it's best to avoid sharing with the graphics card). There are adapters out that will allow you to connect parallel printers to USB ports, so if you do decide to move to an all USB setup, you may still be able to use your old trusty printers. Just something to consider. Okay, thanks. I'm sure John knows what they are and what they do. I'll be sure and tell him though :) Nightowl >8# "Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #102,327
5/16/03 7:35:13 PM
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Older parallel printers don't use IRQs . . .
. . (Standard Parallel Port setting on newer machines) and they can be turned off, or all parallel ports set to IRQ-7 if the IRQ can't be turned off. The driver uses polling to check the printer. Recent enhanced parallel port schemes may actually use an IRQ, I don't know.
IRQs used to be very scarce and we were always out of them, but it's not so bad since the PCI bus came along as it can share IRQs among several peripherals and USB has replaced serial ports for many peripherals.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #102,340
5/16/03 10:03:46 PM
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IRQs
I believe it stands for Interrupt Request. Basically an external device sends a signal to it's IRQ to request that the CPU temporarily interrupt it's current process so that the device can send or recieve information to be processed.
There are 16 IRQs; but 4 are used for the internal system, 3 for the normal filesystems (1 floppy, and 2 IDE ports), 2 for the keyboard and mouse (unless using USB devices), 1 or 2 for the sound card, 1 for the graphics card, 1 for each USB root, 1 for each serial port, 1 for each parallel port (though as mentioned they may not be used), etc...
~~~)-Steven----
"I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country..."
General George S. Patton
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Post #102,367
5/17/03 1:51:07 AM
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Re: IRQs
Okay, thanks for explaining that. I forgot to ask John about it tonight, cause I got excited listening to the Ducks Vs Wild game, so I'll ask him tomorrow.
Nightowl >8#
"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #102,380
5/17/03 1:12:08 PM
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Re: IRQs
John says Epstein (The Epson LQ-570+) has a parallel port that uses one IRQ, and Xavier (The Xerox one) also has a parallel port who uses an IRQ.
He says we have more than enough IRQs to handle the printers. :)
Thanks.
Nightowl >8#
"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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