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New I put this here only because this may.
Devolve into an evangelism war.

*HOPEFULLY* this might be a case where I do not have to wander down any further.

Assumptions being made:
Company: Fuzzywhatzit, Inc.
Products:
FooBalls. A Product that has made it's way on every automobile currently made in the world. It's part of the steering.
FooRetainers. The single most important retainer in the automobiles that have kiniminer bearings. It retains them.
FooControls. These are the knobs and switches that are used to control the odometer and tripometer, in cars.
Fuzzywhatzit has completely computer automated it's production control so the only things that people need to do, is load in raw materials (and the logistics of that) and unload, inspect and pack product for shipment.

Fuzzywhatzit has a problem, they have to keep the "Control Systems" running 24/7/365, just to keep up with the demand. Yes they are doing online backups of things, which makes it tricky but still. Systems need to be running and DOING the function they have period. 0% downtime.

Systems are managed by a set of computers running an OS. This OS and Applications have to be able to be run the "Computer Automated Systems" without interuption, else Fuzzywhatzit has losses @USD $1M/hour rate.

Good systems design has already been accomplished as they have six tasks, each task has a primary controller, secondary controller and tertiary controller, each with four seperate power sources and each power source with two power supplies attached to them. Each of the power sources have a battery backup as well as a primary and secondary generators to keep things alive and running, whihch includes the shop and machines as well. Gotta keep things running.

1 task is the operational database and control application server, the other 5 tasks are controlled by the first task, along the path of production.

Fortunately for Fuzzywhatzit, they get a new contract calling for 50% more capacity, than they currently are able to produce. Expansions are ready and waiting.

Well, wouldn't you know it, to increase capacity on the 6 tasks, a new "production acceleration timing system" that has been guaranteed to Fuzzywhatzit to increase production by trimming uneeded pauses and shortening working times, to the 50+% needed. This new software worth $500K/hour, it only runs on the "latest version" of the OS. Bad thing is, the database (from the 3 year old version of OS) has a single feature in it that this and only this version of the Database product has, and the whole production system revolves around the feature turned bug in later versions. Hmm. We are stuck at this version of the DB.

Since the current production system cannot be stopped without losing $1M/hour, how would you do this.
Given this story:
1) The company is doing wonderful in it marketing.
2) Due to the marketing, it has acquired a contract worth $500K per hour.
3) The needed changes to increase capacity 50+% are to be software related only. And are attainable easily.
4) The three year old version of the OS has a very much newer version available, but it ALSO comes with a newer, but incompatible version of the DB.
5) The new product can and does use the older version of the DB just as well as the older version, no problems there as the existing production system depends on the old version.
6) The machines that run as primary the primary, secondary and tertiary are well capable of running the new version OS without hardware changes or upgrades.
7) The Owner of the company (yes Fuzzywhatzit is privately held) says this must be done without ANY down time, the new software must be implemented without interruption either. Thereby dis-allowing any machine to be out of service for any amount of time.
8) The success of the company rests on this project working without problems.
9) The ground work done here will mean a whole new area of work for the comapny. FooProduction Consulting.

Given all of these, please describe a good method for the upgrade without being able to "break" any machine or compatibility. Any OS can be used for this, the one you select is the one assumed to be have already been loaded previously. And Please limit your selections to those products managed by the operating system using the default tools available. (IOW, something like Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP (LAMP) or MS2K,SQL,ASP and .NET(2SA.N))

Please be clear as to how you would manage these issues specifically with the OS upgrade and the DB staying the exact same version with the "bug" Production revolves around.
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!]

THEY ARE WATCHING YOU.
The time has come for you to take the last step.
You must love THEM.
It is not enough to obey THEM.
You must love THEM.

PEACE BEGETS WAR, SLAVERY IS FREEDOM, STRENGTH IN IGNORANCE.
New Dipping toe carefully into water...
If I may be so bold to attempt a summary of what seems to be required: you're asking to see if there's an OS/platform that supports absolutely seamless live OS upgrades?

If the answer to that is 'yes', then ISTR Tandem's NonStop system could do that. But I'm not sure since I was involved peripherally at best when I worked for an employer who had one. (Also I have a memory of some PABX boxes being able to do this, too.)

Wade.

Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please

-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

New Re: Dipping toe carefully into water...
Wade.
So much for just dipping a toe...
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Ha! :-)
New Oh you're a riot, you are. (-:

Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please

-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

New Hmm, could this be what you're getting at?
Uhh, pin MySQL (or Postgres) and apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade.

Or did you want to wait until someone posted the hard way?
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New Or even just hold the package.


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New Yeah, well
The person this was really derived for won't understand anyway. Not only that he'll just insist his version of said operating system is better 'cause it is.

And we all know he has work to do.

Me? I'd pin them *AND* hold them, just to make sure I don't screw up. Then do the obligatory: apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade

And, yes I have seen WHOLE systems revolve around an undocumented feature set, that was "fixed" in newer versions of support programs. At one point "MAPICS" had a trigger based on an invalid response from a query. Well, unfortunately this single query was the pull trigger. Not only that but the same query run from command console vs. batch gave entirely different results as well. As well as if called with static code or dynamically generated code (even if the code was identically structured) gave different results, being the environment was slightly different.

Eventually they fixed it, but not before some serious gnashing of teeth. It took them nearly 2 months to actually figure-out WHY they did that in the first place. Let alone a 6 month task at *REALLY* fixing it. In the meantime things would not get ordered or pull through the channel. And you'd have to amnually trigger the events... Sheesh! Pain it was during hte fix cycle for them (AND me)

[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!]

THEY ARE WATCHING YOU.
The time has come for you to take the last step.
You must love THEM.
It is not enough to obey THEM.
You must love THEM.

PEACE BEGETS WAR, SLAVERY IS FREEDOM, STRENGTH IN IGNORANCE.
New Re: I put this here only because this may.
It sounds like what you need to do is redo the database on upgraded machines, place this as the secondary and tertiary controllers and seamlessly switch over. So your upgraded system becomes the hot-spare and you switch-over just as you would when the primary controller fails. Then you create a new tertiary controller.

So the difficulty is now of keeping two different databases in sync until you are ready to switch over. That I'll leave to the database gurus.
qts
New or you could do it like this company
largest ex baby bell in the US. Bounce all your datacenter (couple of thousand of them)application servers monthly because of memory leaks in core homegrown apps. Since all the programmers "know" the the bounce schedule is monthly they no longer have to take the time to do rudimentary garbage collection and testing so new apps are rolled out even faster. Therefore do your cut during the scheduled down time :-)
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]

Carpe Dieu
     I put this here only because this may. - (folkert) - (9)
         Dipping toe carefully into water... - (static) - (3)
             Re: Dipping toe carefully into water... - (admin) - (2)
                 Ha! :-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                 Oh you're a riot, you are. (-: -NT - (static)
         Hmm, could this be what you're getting at? - (drewk) - (2)
             Or even just hold the package. -NT - (pwhysall)
             Yeah, well - (folkert)
         Re: I put this here only because this may. - (qstephens)
         or you could do it like this company - (boxley)

No, no. We have to provide potential hostages over there so they won’t look for potential hostages over here.
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