Wrong

Post #101,234 by deSitter 5/10/03 7:50:40 PM Reply	Wrong This is a naive, nerd-o-centric position. Competition means profitable business and working capital. Of COURSE it's still Linux - that's why I can at least tolerate the excesses of the Doobians. -drl
Post #101,267 by imric 5/11/03 6:28:12 AM Reply	Umm. Competition means profitable business and working capital. No. Anything that takes marketshare competes. There is no price-point, on-hand capital, or organizational strictures involved in competition. If Debian didn't compete, why would you care? Suse, Redhat, Windows, SCO et al. would be in no danger. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #101,299 by deSitter 5/11/03 3:32:11 PM Reply	Re: Umm. There is no market for Debian. Debbie and Ian are not selling anything. SuSE OTOH is selling system integration, Linux expertise, and circular bandwidth - the Debian people may be every bit as good or better than the SuSE people, but they aren't doing it for money or even out of any hope of money. It's being done as an exercise, or a game, or a political statement - one can think of lots of reasons (some of them even, good ones!) but BUSINESS is not one of them. To compete with an oppressive BUSINESS, you need to trump it with a better BUSINESS. -drl
Post #101,305 by pwhysall 5/11/03 4:38:36 PM Reply	Rubbish. What about Apache? This product without a BUSINESS seems to be doing a fine job of beating the hell out of everything else, in particular IIS, which is produced by a BUSINESS. When every damn Linux installation but yours is Debian or Debian-based, will you then concede that Debian doesn't have to be a BUSINESS to beat the living crap out of every other distribution? Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #101,311 by kmself 5/11/03 5:18:56 PM Reply	What Ian sells Is called [link\|http://progeny.com/\|Progeny]. Ian's [link\|http://progeny.com/about/team.html\|chairman and CTO]. \r\n\r\n White paper describing [link\|http://progeny.com/PlatformServicesWP_031703.pdf\|Debian as a platform services foundation]. Echoed in the [link\|http://progeny.com/about/index.html\|about Progeny] page: \r\n\r\n \r\n[W]hat the marketplace really needed (and what we were uniquely qualified to provide) was a superior, cost-effective alternative for building and maintaining a customized Linux platform\ufffdfocused not around a particular distribution, but on Linux as a whole.\r\n --\r\n Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n [link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n [link\|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/\|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n \r\n Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
Post #101,314 by deSitter 5/11/03 5:27:35 PM Reply	UNIX is not "componentized" Would I trust anyone who used such a stupid word? Would I trust anyone so stupid as to think UNIX can be "componentized"? What the hell is that? Word salad! You Doobians are every bit as deluded and irrational as Windows doobs were. I love the "shades of SCO/3Com/YourFuckedCompanyHere" web design - not. -drl
Post #101,318 by pwhysall 5/11/03 5:49:34 PM Reply	Still sore cuz you can't install it? Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #101,323 by deSitter 5/11/03 6:04:59 PM 5/11/03 6:06:12 PM Reply	Sheesh Can't you do better than that? I hate the evil thing - like a cheap Chinese radio or some Russian counterfeit copy of a nice pen, it's offensive to the eye and mind. Just one look is all it took. It's a POS slackertoy like GNU info, emacs, tetex, netscape, mozilla, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. ETC.! I have ACTUAL WORK to do. -drl Edited by deSitter May 11, 2003, 06:06:12 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #101,355 by admin 5/11/03 9:39:05 PM Reply	ROFL I'll take your sorry ass on with Emacs and Mozilla any day of the week. They're what I use for REAL WORK every day. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #101,374 by pwhysall 5/12/03 3:06:42 AM Reply	TeTeX? Ah, that's right. You're the one who claims that there's "no good equation editors" on UNIX, and that LaTeX is "weird". Keep on with the meds, boi. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #101,325 by kmself 5/11/03 6:09:59 PM Reply	Re: UNIX is not "componentized" Blah blah blah blah dicksize blah blah. \r\n\r\n Unix is componentized (though I prefer the term "modularized"). Debian makes managing the compenents far more tenable. Progeny's business is selling custom-tailored Linux systems for enterprise clients. While the claim is of distribution independence, Debian is very much the base, for good reason. It's the same reasoning that's behind the various bootable distros (LNX-BBC, Knoppix, Demo-Linux, etc.) basing their packages from Debian. Less crap to deal with, greatly facilitated effort. \r\n\r\n I'm still waiting for Danny Ross Lunsford's Cooking with Shit and Crow for Fun and Frothing. Last I checked, you're the one who's talking shit on Debian without having tried it. And never mind me. Check with... Greg, Peter, Scott, Bill (still on the cusp, but I think he'll make it), Drew, Ben, etc., etc., etc.... Each of whom started elsewhere, tried Debian, and realized the advantages. There was some armtwisting to get them to try it, but the proof's in the pudding. \r\n\r\n And we'll note the usual cogent and relevant arguments. Too much river water of late, Ross? --\r\n Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n [link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n [link\|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/\|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n \r\n Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
Post #101,340 by deSitter 5/11/03 7:04:52 PM Reply	Re: UNIX is not "componentized" I tried enough of it to know that I'll never be as cool as you guys :) I can't tell you how disgusted I was by the entire thing. If you're that INTO low-level bullshit and have the time, why not do BSD? Some things can't be boiled down to a formula. Everything I've learned over the years tells me Debian sucks, and SuSE doesn't. You know that feel you get when you drive a well-engineered car? Debian is a set of diagrams of the car in some random order. SuSE is the car. And to stress the point, by supporting SuSE, I'm attacking Microsoft. By supporting Debian, you're wasting your own time while they suck up more and more of the world. Guess what - Windows is born-again hard (about fucking time after 15 years) - Windows XP keeps the good core of NT and fixes its many performance problems - but now that they have a Windows worth owning, they will just stick it to everyone three times as hard to protect it. The only way to combat Windows XP is to make something is available and profitable that is just as easy to install, just as stable, and just as functional. That will NEVER happen with Debian, because there is no profit in it. By supporting SuSE there is a remote chance that Windows will have a worthy competitor, and a financially healthy one. So, I froth because 1) I can't STAND mob political behavior 2) Debian pegged my trusted "dubiousity" meter 3) I want MS and vendor UNIX to have a realistic competitor. -drl
Post #101,344 by kmself 5/11/03 7:32:44 PM Reply	/kmself hands DRL ...a large barrel of vaseline. \r\n\r\n Stroke and bore, Ross. --\r\n Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n [link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n [link\|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/\|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n \r\n Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
Post #101,356 by admin 5/11/03 9:45:51 PM Reply	I moved FROM SuSE TO Debian, nimrod. And not for political reasons. SuSE ate itself, and I didn't have the time to fuck around with fixing a broken RPM installation. I've spent ZERO time maintaining my Debian box since I set it up. I use it AT WORK day in and day out. SuSE was the distro that sucked time like a two-bit whore, not Debian. That's the raw, fucking truth, Ross. Believe it or not (you obviously don't), but at least get over yourself. "Tried enough of it to know." Yeah, horseshit. I'll bet you spent a whole prejuidiced 2 hours with it, didn't you. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #101,408 by drewk 5/12/03 8:27:49 AM Reply	Bwaaaaahahahaha "Debbie and Ian aren't selling anything." "Oh yeah?" Oh that's just priceless. === Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.

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