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New Future versions of windows to be more UNIX-y
ZDNet UK article [link|http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2133899,00.html|here.]

I got the following from the [link|http://sage.org/|SAGE] email list:

####### Microsoft: Future versions of Windows to be more UNIX-y

Apropos of the recent release of Windows Server 2003, ZDNet UK
reporter Rupert Goodwins interviews Microsoft VP Rob Short about how
the Windows architecture is evolving -- in some cases to be more like
UNIX.

It's not a formal product announcement, but Short confirms that there
will eventually be a command line-only version of Windows:

"We're looking longer term to see what can be done, looking at
the layers and what's available at each layer and how do we make
it much closer to the thing the Linux guys have -- having only
the pieces you want running. That's something Linux has that's
ahead of us, but we're looking at it."

Microsoft is also working to improve the ability to patch servers
without a reboot:

"That's an area where the Unix guys are ahead of us, because of
the way they do redirection -- they can patch a file and then
change the symbolic link. That's an area where we've got a
problem, and we'll fix it in the near future when possible."

Short also discusses improvements to security and file system
performance. All of the security news, however, may not be positive.
In Windows Server 2003, some components of the IIS web server have
been moved into the kernel in order to increase performance. The
drawback to such a move, of course, is that "We have a lot of parsing
in there, and that opens you up to buffer overruns and attacks,"
although he claims that the code has been thoroughly scrutinized for
flaws.


A CLI-only version of Windows? I can't see that happening.

Ah, and moving 'components of the IIS web server' into the kernel? What the HELL are they smoking up there in Redmond-land? I, for one, HOPE they do this.

-----
Steve
New Those who do not understand UNIX
are doomed to reinvent it, badly.


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New Actually been hearing a nasty rumor.
Microsoft is actually going to produce a version of IIS/ASP/NET/MSSQL integrated appserver for Linux. With linking being the only thing needed to get it to run.

I don't know iffn it really true, I can't find anything on it as of late. I shall be groping around for it.

One ear to the ground/rail/pavement.
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!]
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----\nVersion: 3.12+\nGAT d+ s+:++ a C++++ UBHLO++++ P+ L+++ E---/E---- W+++ N+ o--\nK--- w--- O+ M+ V-- PS-- PE Y+ PGP++ t+ 5++ X+ R tv+ b+++ DI+++\nD++ Q2+++ Q3A+++ UT+++ UT2K3+++ G e* h--- r+++ z+++*\n------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
New Windows Is Getting Performance-Killed
..by cheap RAM. Windows, all versions, have a distinct advantage in low memory situations - but the aggressive swapping is a hindrance when there is plenty of RAM. UNIX with a ton of RAM can just zip along.

It is extremely ironic that the hardware evolution that sustained Windows for so long, is now going to kill it. 64bit computing will be the end of Windows as we've known it.

-drl
New Iffen you want something like that
get OS/2. Setting it up to run without the desktop is trivially easy to do. You can also peel out the graphics layer without too much trouble.

Also, it's virtual memory blows the doors off windows; it handles low ram situations very well, and also handles high ram situations very well. Furthermore, some simple performance tweaks to the SWAPPATH and MEMMAN statements in the config.sys can really set up a box to rock.

Its threading is also extremely efficient; threaded non-interactive apps under OS/2 are extraordinary performers.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New No doubt.
It's also deader than a doornail :\\


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New Depends on the meaning of "dead".
A new version of eCS (an update to OS/2) is [link|http://www.ecomstation.biz/home.html|just out].

I think it's more alive than [link|http://www.befaqs.com/news/readstory.php?story=196|BeOS], and even that still has some life in it.

YMMV.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Well, not really
but it certainly is a hard sell for many people. However, if you have a custom app that you want to stick on a box and have it sit in a corner and just work, OS/2 still bears consideration; while it was considered fat "back in the day", nowadays it qualifies as a lean mean operating machine.

Of course, if you're considering eComStation, I'd also point out [link|http://www.bmtmicro.com/BMTCatalog/os2/ecomstation.html|http://www.bmtmicro..../ecomstation.html] for the US, and [link|http://www.finnsoft.com/html/ecomstation.html|http://www.finnsoft..../ecomstation.html] if you're ordering in Canada, or if you want a preloaded system. Since you're in the UK, you'd probably want to go to Mensys in the Netherlands: [link|http://shop.mensys.nl/catalogue/mns_ecomstation11.html|http://shop.mensys.n...comstation11.html].

"I'm not dead yet!" ;)
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New A CLI-only version of Windows == DOS
[link|mailto:jbrabeck@attbi.com|Joe]
New Funny, but wrong
2K and XP can run console-only for maintenance. Finally, the people at MS-OS figured out that a GUI is sometimes a hindrance.
-drl
New What do you propose then? WinDOS?


[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!]
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New Or better yet... WinDoes?
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!]
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----\nVersion: 3.12+\nGAT d+ s+:++ a C++++ UBHLO++++ P+ L+++ E---/E---- W+++ N+ o--\nK--- w--- O+ M+ V-- PS-- PE Y+ PGP++ t+ 5++ X+ R tv+ b+++ DI+++\nD++ Q2+++ Q3A+++ UT+++ UT2K3+++ G e* h--- r+++ z+++*\n------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
New Or WinDoesn't
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New Winux-- (minus minus version)?
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!]
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----\nVersion: 3.12+\nGAT d+ s+:++ a C++++ UBHLO++++ P+ L+++ E---/E---- W+++ N+ o--\nK--- w--- O+ M+ V-- PS-- PE Y+ PGP++ t+ 5++ X+ R tv+ b+++ DI+++\nD++ Q2+++ Q3A+++ UT+++ UT2K3+++ G e* h--- r+++ z+++*\n------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
New contentID whores...
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New WindoesPD (Pant's down version)
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!]
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----\nVersion: 3.12+\nGAT d+ s+:++ a C++++ UBHLO++++ P+ L+++ E---/E---- W+++ N+ o--\nK--- w--- O+ M+ V-- PS-- PE Y+ PGP++ t+ 5++ X+ R tv+ b+++ DI+++\nD++ Q2+++ Q3A+++ UT+++ UT2K3+++ G e* h--- r+++ z+++*\n------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
New You made us
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New C:Windows>
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!]
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----\nVersion: 3.12+\nGAT d+ s+:++ a C++++ UBHLO++++ P+ L+++ E---/E---- W+++ N+ o--\nK--- w--- O+ M+ V-- PS-- PE Y+ PGP++ t+ 5++ X+ R tv+ b+++ DI+++\nD++ Q2+++ Q3A+++ UT+++ UT2K3+++ G e* h--- r+++ z+++*\n------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
New Everyone's trying to be 100K. ;-o
[link|mailto:jbrabeck@attbi.com|Joe]
New And what's wrong with that?
-YendorMike

[link|http://www.hope-ride.org/|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
New I mean, we only roll over...
...the digits here once in a log-a-rhythmic while...
-YendorMike

[link|http://www.hope-ride.org/|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
New Gah. Hopefully it will be a REAL post and not this crap.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Bah. What's wrong with this crap? ;-)
-YendorMike

[link|http://www.hope-ride.org/|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
New Posting halt called... <grin>
Post number 100k reserve for an Ashton soliloquy.

or a Ben_Tilly discourse,

or a Karsten thoughtful question,

or a Danny diatribe,

or a Marlowe rant,

or an Admin special,

or luck of the numbers.

<\\grin>
[link|mailto:jbrabeck@attbi.com|Joe]
New 95 could run like that, too.
But it took some doing to set it up. Andrew Schulman got a late beta of Win95 up without the GUI and documented how he did it in a book whose name I can't remember because I can't find it right now. :-/ It basically took advantage of the fact that all of 95's GUI layer actually ran in a single VMM.

Wade.

Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please

-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

New The wiggle on that

Win95 was essentially a graphical shell running on DOS. So you were bastardizing the system back down to the underlying "kernel", really just a program loader (not even really a resource manager -- after all, DOS can be convinced to load Linux via LOADLIN.EXE...which by one interpretation makes Linux just another DOS app ;-). Whereas with the NT kernel, you're talking about a system which was pretty much ground-up designed to be a GUI system. Yes, you can hack it into running console mode. I'm even largely doing this presently by accessing a Win2K system via SSHD. But it's a gawdawfully fscked up command-line space. The native tools suck, the filesystem layout's a beast, there's no consistency. Or put more succinctly: it's Windows.

--\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
   Keep software free.     Oppose the CBDTPA.     Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
     Future versions of windows to be more UNIX-y - (Steve Lowe) - (25)
         Those who do not understand UNIX - (pwhysall) - (1)
             Actually been hearing a nasty rumor. - (folkert)
         Windows Is Getting Performance-Killed - (deSitter) - (4)
             Iffen you want something like that - (jake123) - (3)
                 No doubt. - (pwhysall) - (2)
                     Depends on the meaning of "dead". - (Another Scott)
                     Well, not really - (jake123)
         A CLI-only version of Windows == DOS -NT - (jbrabeck) - (17)
             Funny, but wrong - (deSitter) - (16)
                 What do you propose then? WinDOS? - (folkert) - (13)
                     Or better yet... WinDoes? -NT - (folkert)
                     Or WinDoesn't -NT - (drewk) - (11)
                         Winux-- (minus minus version)? -NT - (folkert) - (10)
                             contentID whores... -NT - (admin) - (9)
                                 WindoesPD (Pant's down version) -NT - (folkert)
                                 You made us -NT - (drewk)
                                 C:Windows> -NT - (folkert)
                                 Everyone's trying to be 100K. ;-o -NT - (jbrabeck) - (5)
                                     And what's wrong with that? -NT - (Yendor) - (4)
                                         I mean, we only roll over... - (Yendor) - (3)
                                             Gah. Hopefully it will be a REAL post and not this crap. -NT - (admin) - (2)
                                                 Bah. What's wrong with this crap? ;-) -NT - (Yendor)
                                                 Posting halt called... <grin> - (jbrabeck)
                 95 could run like that, too. - (static) - (1)
                     The wiggle on that - (kmself)

Ya got trouble, folks!
93 ms