Post #99,864
5/2/03 10:47:50 AM
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Future versions of windows to be more UNIX-y
ZDNet UK article [link|http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2133899,00.html|here.] I got the following from the [link|http://sage.org/|SAGE] email list: ####### Microsoft: Future versions of Windows to be more UNIX-y
Apropos of the recent release of Windows Server 2003, ZDNet UK reporter Rupert Goodwins interviews Microsoft VP Rob Short about how the Windows architecture is evolving -- in some cases to be more like UNIX.
It's not a formal product announcement, but Short confirms that there will eventually be a command line-only version of Windows:
"We're looking longer term to see what can be done, looking at the layers and what's available at each layer and how do we make it much closer to the thing the Linux guys have -- having only the pieces you want running. That's something Linux has that's ahead of us, but we're looking at it."
Microsoft is also working to improve the ability to patch servers without a reboot:
"That's an area where the Unix guys are ahead of us, because of the way they do redirection -- they can patch a file and then change the symbolic link. That's an area where we've got a problem, and we'll fix it in the near future when possible."
Short also discusses improvements to security and file system performance. All of the security news, however, may not be positive. In Windows Server 2003, some components of the IIS web server have been moved into the kernel in order to increase performance. The drawback to such a move, of course, is that "We have a lot of parsing in there, and that opens you up to buffer overruns and attacks," although he claims that the code has been thoroughly scrutinized for flaws. A CLI-only version of Windows? I can't see that happening. Ah, and moving 'components of the IIS web server' into the kernel? What the HELL are they smoking up there in Redmond-land? I, for one, HOPE they do this.
----- Steve
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Post #99,868
5/2/03 10:55:14 AM
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Those who do not understand UNIX
are doomed to reinvent it, badly.
Peter [link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire] [link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal] [link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #99,884
5/2/03 11:45:26 AM
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Actually been hearing a nasty rumor.
Microsoft is actually going to produce a version of IIS/ASP/NET/MSSQL integrated appserver for Linux. With linking being the only thing needed to get it to run.
I don't know iffn it really true, I can't find anything on it as of late. I shall be groping around for it.
One ear to the ground/rail/pavement.
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] |
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Post #99,874
5/2/03 11:12:48 AM
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Windows Is Getting Performance-Killed
..by cheap RAM. Windows, all versions, have a distinct advantage in low memory situations - but the aggressive swapping is a hindrance when there is plenty of RAM. UNIX with a ton of RAM can just zip along.
It is extremely ironic that the hardware evolution that sustained Windows for so long, is now going to kill it. 64bit computing will be the end of Windows as we've known it.
-drl
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Post #99,950
5/2/03 3:50:35 PM
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Iffen you want something like that
get OS/2. Setting it up to run without the desktop is trivially easy to do. You can also peel out the graphics layer without too much trouble.
Also, it's virtual memory blows the doors off windows; it handles low ram situations very well, and also handles high ram situations very well. Furthermore, some simple performance tweaks to the SWAPPATH and MEMMAN statements in the config.sys can really set up a box to rock.
Its threading is also extremely efficient; threaded non-interactive apps under OS/2 are extraordinary performers.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #100,069
5/3/03 12:50:40 AM
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No doubt.
It's also deader than a doornail :\\
Peter [link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire] [link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal] [link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #100,102
5/3/03 8:48:35 AM
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Depends on the meaning of "dead".
A new version of eCS (an update to OS/2) is [link|http://www.ecomstation.biz/home.html|just out].
I think it's more alive than [link|http://www.befaqs.com/news/readstory.php?story=196|BeOS], and even that still has some life in it.
YMMV.
Cheers, Scott.
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Post #100,288
5/4/03 9:13:13 PM
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Well, not really
but it certainly is a hard sell for many people. However, if you have a custom app that you want to stick on a box and have it sit in a corner and just work, OS/2 still bears consideration; while it was considered fat "back in the day", nowadays it qualifies as a lean mean operating machine.
Of course, if you're considering eComStation, I'd also point out [link|http://www.bmtmicro.com/BMTCatalog/os2/ecomstation.html|http://www.bmtmicro..../ecomstation.html] for the US, and [link|http://www.finnsoft.com/html/ecomstation.html|http://www.finnsoft..../ecomstation.html] if you're ordering in Canada, or if you want a preloaded system. Since you're in the UK, you'd probably want to go to Mensys in the Netherlands: [link|http://shop.mensys.nl/catalogue/mns_ecomstation11.html|http://shop.mensys.n...comstation11.html].
"I'm not dead yet!" ;)
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #99,895
5/2/03 12:21:14 PM
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A CLI-only version of Windows == DOS
[link|mailto:jbrabeck@attbi.com|Joe]
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Post #99,935
5/2/03 2:17:40 PM
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Funny, but wrong
2K and XP can run console-only for maintenance. Finally, the people at MS-OS figured out that a GUI is sometimes a hindrance.
-drl
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Post #99,956
5/2/03 4:08:58 PM
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What do you propose then? WinDOS?
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] |
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Post #99,957
5/2/03 4:10:33 PM
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Or better yet... WinDoes?
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] |
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Post #99,958
5/2/03 4:11:06 PM
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Or WinDoesn't
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #99,959
5/2/03 4:13:58 PM
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Winux-- (minus minus version)?
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] |
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Post #99,960
5/2/03 4:16:28 PM
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contentID whores...
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #99,963
5/2/03 4:18:11 PM
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WindoesPD (Pant's down version)
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] |
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Post #99,964
5/2/03 4:20:08 PM
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You made us
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #99,965
5/2/03 4:20:53 PM
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C:Windows>
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] |
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Post #99,967
5/2/03 4:34:09 PM
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Everyone's trying to be 100K. ;-o
[link|mailto:jbrabeck@attbi.com|Joe]
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Post #99,968
5/2/03 4:37:07 PM
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And what's wrong with that?
-YendorMike
[link|http://www.hope-ride.org/|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
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Post #99,969
5/2/03 4:37:52 PM
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I mean, we only roll over...
...the digits here once in a log-a-rhythmic while...
-YendorMike
[link|http://www.hope-ride.org/|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
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Post #99,972
5/2/03 4:42:43 PM
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Gah. Hopefully it will be a REAL post and not this crap.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #99,975
5/2/03 4:44:41 PM
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Bah. What's wrong with this crap? ;-)
-YendorMike
[link|http://www.hope-ride.org/|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
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Post #99,980
5/2/03 4:49:03 PM
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Posting halt called... <grin>
Post number 100k reserve for an Ashton soliloquy.
or a Ben_Tilly discourse,
or a Karsten thoughtful question,
or a Danny diatribe,
or a Marlowe rant,
or an Admin special,
or luck of the numbers.
<\\grin>
[link|mailto:jbrabeck@attbi.com|Joe]
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Post #100,055
5/2/03 11:41:20 PM
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95 could run like that, too.
But it took some doing to set it up. Andrew Schulman got a late beta of Win95 up without the GUI and documented how he did it in a book whose name I can't remember because I can't find it right now. :-/ It basically took advantage of the fact that all of 95's GUI layer actually ran in a single VMM.
Wade.
Is it enough to love Is it enough to breathe Somebody rip my heart out And leave me here to bleed
| | Is it enough to die Somebody save my life I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
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Post #100,140
5/3/03 5:30:56 PM
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The wiggle on that
Win95 was essentially a graphical shell running on DOS. So you were bastardizing the system back down to the underlying "kernel", really just a program loader (not even really a resource manager -- after all, DOS can be convinced to load Linux via LOADLIN.EXE...which by one interpretation makes Linux just another DOS app ;-). Whereas with the NT kernel, you're talking about a system which was pretty much ground-up designed to be a GUI system. Yes, you can hack it into running console mode. I'm even largely doing this presently by accessing a Win2K system via SSHD. But it's a gawdawfully fscked up command-line space. The native tools suck, the filesystem layout's a beast, there's no consistency. Or put more succinctly: it's Windows.
--\r\n Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n [link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n [link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n \r\n Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
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