WW4? Who are we? The Fourth Reich?

It's fundamentally different.

It may very well happen that Iraq becomes a shining example of Arab "liberalism" in the real Jeffersonian sense. We then have a buddy in the region to replace Saudi Arabia. We are happy. They are happy. Israel is told to shut up and behave itself. This is not Lebensraum or Rassenvernichtung. It's "revolutionary politics" as described by T.L. Friedmann of the Times, who, as was pointed out by Alex, knows the people and the region. I might point out that the Republicans were born as a party with just such a revolutionary mandate against the South. They invaded and imposed their will on a sovereign nation. Even before that, a similar invasion of Mexico was undertaken, that is eerily like the current war in context.

Does that make the war correct? NO. The end does not justify the means. Once you start living that way, there is no bottom to your responsibilities to make God-like decisions. It is better to order one's own house first, to set an example to be followed by people of their own free will.

It is strange - the Christians have the opportunity to show all the Semitic people how to live according to sane principles of compassion, but instead resort to the authoritarian principles that organize the competing faiths.

Or maybe you can point to some place where we installed a democracy? Chile, perhaps? Nicaragua? Iran? Iraq? Saudi Arabia - don't tell me you don't agree we saved the family there?

You're on a dangerous path here, Ross. Let me leave you with a quote.

"Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine policy, and it is always as simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denouce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."

-Hermann Goering, Nuremburg Trials

Post #94,034 by mmoffitt 4/3/03 9:49:34 AM Reply	WW4? Who are we? The Fourth Reich? Fits. bcnu, Mikem Osama bin Laden's brother could fly in US airspace 9/15/01, but I had to wait for FBI and CIA background checks, 'nuff said?
Post #94,051 by deSitter 4/3/03 10:16:18 AM 4/3/03 10:20:13 AM Reply	No It's fundamentally different. It may very well happen that Iraq becomes a shining example of Arab "liberalism" in the real Jeffersonian sense. We then have a buddy in the region to replace Saudi Arabia. We are happy. They are happy. Israel is told to shut up and behave itself. This is not Lebensraum or Rassenvernichtung. It's "revolutionary politics" as described by T.L. Friedmann of the Times, who, as was pointed out by Alex, knows the people and the region. I might point out that the Republicans were born as a party with just such a revolutionary mandate against the South. They invaded and imposed their will on a sovereign nation. Even before that, a similar invasion of Mexico was undertaken, that is eerily like the current war in context. Does that make the war correct? NO. The end does not justify the means. Once you start living that way, there is no bottom to your responsibilities to make God-like decisions. It is better to order one's own house first, to set an example to be followed by people of their own free will. It is strange - the Christians have the opportunity to show all the Semitic people how to live according to sane principles of compassion, but instead resort to the authoritarian principles that organize the competing faiths. -drl Edited by deSitter April 3, 2003, 10:20:13 AM EST Expand All History
Post #94,068 by mmoffitt 4/3/03 10:39:14 AM Reply	Taken to Kool-Aid have we? Or maybe you can point to some place where we installed a democracy? Chile, perhaps? Nicaragua? Iran? Iraq? Saudi Arabia - don't tell me you don't agree we saved the family there? You're on a dangerous path here, Ross. Let me leave you with a quote. "Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine policy, and it is always as simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denouce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country." -Hermann Goering, Nuremburg Trials bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #94,070 by boxley 4/3/03 10:40:51 AM Reply	japan will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org] Since corporations are the equivelent of human but they have no "concience" they are by definition sociopaths
Post #94,071 by mmoffitt 4/3/03 10:42:58 AM Reply	An aberration ->and needed a non-Comm to spy on the USSR. bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #94,091 by Arkadiy 4/3/03 11:30:39 AM Reply	If you can mention Chile, perhaps I could mention Serbia? -- It made Ketchup! Sweet Ketchup! Put it on a hot dog, put it on a burger, Put it on your sister and she'll holler blody murder! Sweet Ketchup. --Tom Paxton.
Post #94,152 by lincoln 4/3/03 6:01:27 PM Reply	Hell of a quote, dude! lincoln "Four score and seven years ago, I had a better sig" [link\|http://users3.ev1.net/~bconnors/resume.htm\|VB/SQL/Tandem resume] [link\|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net\|contact me]
Post #94,101 by JayMehaffey 4/3/03 12:04:38 PM Reply	Can't be We are the good guys, the White House said so. Ignore the signs that we are drifting towards being a nationalistic militaristic police state, what we are doing has nothing to do with fascism. Anybody that says otherwise hates America. Jay
Post #95,394 by mmoffitt 4/9/03 12:52:35 PM Reply	You're right, of course. What was I thinking? Perhaps I need to turn myself in to the DHS so they can send me to a psychiatric hospital that I may be "re-educated". bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"

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