On program I saw, another factor -

Post #9,225 by Ashton 9/14/01 9:49:55 PM Reply	On program I saw, another factor - As the height increases, size/weight is reduced, just as we would suppose - and everything's weight is factored to the ounce (!). This presentation of numbers and engineering points, mentioned that the planes were directed at most vulnerable location == lowest possible. Nearby buildings kept planes at 60+ level, and second one struck essentially at, 'treetop' level :[ Had they hit higher? the lesser weight of nearby floors .. might also have extended the lifetime some useful amount, as the stored potential energy (the original K.E. of lifting against gravity) would have been less; less of a 'hammer' to the next lower floor, etc. (the fuel was going to burn in any case, and collapse was inevitable). Note that first strike hit higher - lasted longer. (can't recall which, but re 757, 767 - one holds ~9K gallons max, other ~13K gallons max. Another difference in the strikes) A.
Post #9,233 by wharris2 9/14/01 10:30:11 PM Reply	Re: On program I saw, another factor - Note that first strike hit higher - lasted longer. But the second strike hit more viciously; if you see the replays (as you probably have), that fireball and debris cascading out the other side of the building was worse than happened with the first building. I don't remember seeing an "exit wound" from the first strike. (But I was at work at the time and was not able to see much coverage; we had a television set in a conference room, but I only saw bits and pieces.) And the second strike certainly had fire crawling down the sides of the building, unlike the first one where it seemed confined to the upper floors. I think your thought is predicated on an invalid assumption, anyway - there's no way to know at the moment whether the terrorists even imagined they would bring down the entire complex. Massive damage and loss of life, sure, they wanted and expected that. Terror from terrible fires, yes. But to bring the entire thing down? I've seen the report from the professor in England who knew it was "inevitable" that the towers would collapse, but he seems to be the only one on the Web who claims to have known in advance. Perhaps they were hoping the towers would fall over (imagine the top of a tower falling over two or three blocks! ow!). But I suppose we won't know unless/until we catch and interrogate one of the designers of the scheme. I base some of my thinking about the scope of the expected damage from their strike on the Pentagon. If they had expected a Trade Tower collapse type of thing, surely they would have found a richer target than the Puzzle Palace. By the way, I've read and heard several reports about some of the other buildings buckling and perhaps collapsing themselves but other than building 7, I've not been able to find any reports about what exactly is down, damaged, or decrepid. Anyone have links? That no man should scruple, or hesitate a moment to use arms in defense of so valuable a blessing [as freedom], on which all the good and evil of life depends, is clearly my opinion; yet arms ... should be the last resource. - George Washington
Post #9,241 by Ashton 9/14/01 11:16:31 PM Reply	I agree that 'intentionality' is a mere guess, but a good one IMO. And "bringing it down" has been the aim since '93, expressed by now many of their folk. It is also a bit patronizing I think - to imagine these did not do their homework and with technical advice. They are not ignorant savages. Just sociopaths of the Religious scale. You're right re speed too; IIRC first plane wasn't moving as fast, nor did it make an obvious 'exit wound' - but fire soon pretty well encompassed all sides (?) We can be sure that there will be engineering studies of all facets, from the data known now in such detail and photographed second by second. Somebody's PhD.. a la Dallas 1963. A.
Post #9,258 by wharris2 9/15/01 2:25:07 AM Reply	I agree, they had good advice And that advice would have told them the towers were designed to absorb airplane impacts. On the other hand, perhaps they had someone like this England professor on their payroll. As yet, nobody knows. That no man should scruple, or hesitate a moment to use arms in defense of so valuable a blessing [as freedom], on which all the good and evil of life depends, is clearly my opinion; yet arms ... should be the last resource. - George Washington
Post #9,261 by SpiceWare 9/15/01 2:48:13 AM Reply	5 collapsed so far [link\|http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/build.map.html\|Damage Assesment] from CNN Darrell Spice, Jr. [link\|http://home.houston.rr.com/spiceware/\|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
Post #9,270 by wharris2 9/15/01 8:24:33 AM Reply	Exactly what I was looking for! Thanks That no man should scruple, or hesitate a moment to use arms in defense of so valuable a blessing [as freedom], on which all the good and evil of life depends, is clearly my opinion; yet arms ... should be the last resource. - George Washington

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