Post #85,768
3/5/03 12:21:30 PM
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Getting started with C++
In a probably misguided bid to advance myself, I'm going to learn C++.
Let's not get into a language war here - it's what we use here, so that's what I'm going to learn. I know it sucks, k?
What I'd like is some pointers to literature - both online and dead-tree - that will enable me to get the basics down pat and then move me on a bit.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #85,770
3/5/03 12:23:20 PM
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ObUgh.
You have my sympathies.
I started out by leveraging my C and Java knowledge, looking at example code, and reading a few books we had lying around here.
Google for 'c++ tutorials', perhaps...
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #85,775
3/5/03 12:27:14 PM
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get stuck in some source code
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
\ufffdOmni Gaul Delenda est!\ufffd Ceasar
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Post #85,776
3/5/03 12:27:31 PM
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Pointers
[link|http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/|New version]
[link|http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/productinfo/previous/default.asp|Old versions]
/me runs and hides
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #85,809
3/5/03 3:01:37 PM
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*HEY* now...
I heard/felt that *OOFH* from here in Grand Rapids, MI.
You OK, Peter?
/me helping Peter up from the floor...
Nuff of those Kidney punches now OK?
b4k4^2
| [link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!] | | [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004] | Heimatland Geheime Staatspolizei reminds:
These [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberspace_strategy.pdf|Civilian General Orders], please memorize them.
"Questions" will be asked at safety checkpoints. |
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Post #85,950
3/6/03 2:56:20 AM
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Feh to that, webmonkeyboy.
In all likelihood I'll end up programming C++ on VMS :p
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #86,058
3/6/03 11:48:08 AM
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Hey, Drew...
He said he wanted to learn C++.
No BillG(e)'s bastard red-haired child.
Peter, ignore Drew's post. Whatever you do , do not attempt to learn C++ (or any other language other than their proprietary stuff) from a Micros~1 source!
jb4
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
Rich Cook
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Post #86,060
3/6/03 11:55:24 AM
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You're just jealous
Don't you people know Microsoft defines the standards? And if there's already a standard they improve it. Anyone who doesn't use their stuff is just jealous of Bill's success.
[image|/forums/images/warning.png|0|This is sarcasm...]
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #85,777
3/5/03 12:31:12 PM
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Re: Getting started with C++
The best advice - learn C *first*. A good first programming exercise - write an editor in C.
Why C first? Because then you will be able to understand the good parts of C++, while you fume and sputter and tear your hair about the awful parts. You will also be in a position to understand Objective C.
I don't know any good books on C++. BS's books are only readable if you already know what's going on. The "C++ Primer" and its ilk are uniformly awful.
Also - AFAIK gcc still lags behind in having a standard (or even usable) C++ environment (whatever that is). Likewise, the Windows C++ world is not much about C++ in itself, rather, programming with Microsoft's classes. That will just be confusing.
I think Borland has a free version of BC++ (5.5?) without the integrated environment. That would be a good place to start.
-drl
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Post #85,836
3/5/03 5:01:51 PM
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An online C++ source.
One that I found decent as a reference (vs. instruction) is [link|http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/|C++ FAQ Lite]. Anytime you need a nugget to clarify a concept or construct, you are likely to find help here.
Alex
"No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session."\t-- Mark Twain
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Post #85,942
3/6/03 2:15:40 AM
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It sort of depends on your time reference
Which is to say, C++ has been a moving target for awhile. I know places that are frozen on C++ circa 1996 (pre stl and namespaces).
Scott Meyers Effective C++ books used to be indispensable - I think they're a little dated now but the first one is probably worth a read anyhow. He explains where the little gotchas are.
Also, MSC++ is a bit different from everybody elses what with the EXPORT silliness and insistence on type names that only an optometrist could love.
I think that it's extraordinarily important that we in computer science keep fun in computing. When it started out, it was an awful lot of fun. Of course, the paying customer got shafted every now and then, and after a while we began to take their complaints seriously. We began to feel as if we really were responsible for the successful, error-free perfect use of these machines. I don't think we are. I think we're responsible for stretching them, setting them off in new directions, and keeping fun in the house. I hope the field of computer science never loses its sense of fun. Above all, I hope we don't become missionaries. Don't feel as if you're Bible salesmen. The world has too many of those already. What you know about computing other people will learn. Don't feel as if the key to successful computing is only in your hands. What's in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the ability to see the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that you can make it more.
--Alan Perlis
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Post #85,951
3/6/03 2:56:52 AM
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Thanks to all
...except Drew. *shun*
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #86,067
3/6/03 12:07:40 PM
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OK...
First, you need Stroustrup's "The C++ Programming Language", at least the 2nd edition. It's useless as a tutorial, but it is the definitive reference. Keep it around for looking up those obscure answers to even more obscure questions later on.
To start, I'd recommend Bruce Eckel's "Thinking in C++". Eckel's "Thinking in C" and Thinking in JAVA" are highly regarded (I have the latter, and I like it). Although I don't have the C++ book, I have no reason to believe it's quality is less than the other two. As it turns out, I found the book rendered in HTML [link|http://www.iiitb.ac.in/Documents/c%20c++%20oop/thinking%20in%20c++/tic_c.html|here!]
HTH
jb4
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
Rich Cook
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Post #86,081
3/6/03 12:29:13 PM
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nice find!
Bjarne 2 is better than 3 IMO. Even the typesetting in 3 is weird. And caveat lector RE circumlocutions.
-drl
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Post #86,113
3/6/03 2:30:52 PM
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Re: Barney's Book
Actually, I have the "Special Edition", which I understand is the 2nd edition in hardback. (It says it's the "3rd Printing" in the inside front page). Dont find the typesetting wierd, however (although I've never been a fan of either Times or Courier typefaces, which is what's used in the book).
jb4
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
Rich Cook
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Post #86,123
3/6/03 2:51:08 PM
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Re: Barney's Book
B3 has code examples in proportional font - hideous, hideous.
-drl
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Post #86,506
3/7/03 1:40:54 PM
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Ooooh..that IS bad!
In the SE, it claims that "This book was typeset in Times and Courier by the author". If I had to guess, he probably used LaTeX. Of course, the B3 book publisher probably wanted it in TuWord format, and, not knowing their ass from a hole-in-the-ground regarding technical content, decided to use the oh-so-k3wel Palatino font for the "examples".
(But I bet it's got a lot of "sizzle"...)
jb4
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
Rich Cook
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Post #86,286
3/6/03 9:06:13 PM
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Just remembered a Todd B comment
"C++ appeals to people who like complicated intellectual puzzles" - as opposed to real programmers.
-drl
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Post #86,366
3/7/03 3:03:53 AM
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Not helpful
We write real software that does real work in the real world in C++.
Now, if that means the people who are writing it aren't "real programmers", then you and I have different definitions of "real".
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #86,380
3/7/03 7:50:15 AM
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It was a brilliant insight
Just wait until you get involved - you'll see :)
-drl
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Post #86,507
3/7/03 1:42:28 PM
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A-fscking-hem!
I'm involved...and I don't see.
jb4
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
Rich Cook
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Post #86,519
3/7/03 2:05:43 PM
8/21/07 5:53:35 AM
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I just want to point out
that the quote ends before the slight at "real" programmers. Not my words.
The rest of my observation stands - really smart people like C++ because its an interesting intellectual challenge (read REALLY HARD) to write something reliable and correct.
Not that you care - you've picked your poison - good luck.
"I made up the term 'object-oriented', and I can tell you I didn't have C++ in mind"
- Alan Kay, OOPSLA '97
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Post #86,534
3/7/03 3:15:07 PM
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:)
-drl
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Post #88,403
3/14/03 5:44:25 PM
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C++ Help Links
[link|http://normad.8m.net/cpphelp.html|http://normad.8m.net/cpphelp.html]
Ignore the pop-ups, I haven't moved it to normad.com yet. Has tutorials, and other helpful C++ web sites on it. Ignore any broken links, I haven't updated it in a while.
"Bill gates cannot guarantee Windows, so how are you going to guarantee my safety?"
-John Crichton to the Emperor of the Scarrans on [link|http://www.farscape.com|FarScape]
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