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New It's also good for handling Winforks.
Not so much an issue now, but back when you had to write apps for 95 Retail, OSR2, OSR 2.5, 98, 98SE, Me, NT4 and Win2K, it helped quite a bit to have VM's of all of those (with all the associated SP variants, IE variants and Office variants) to see if your apps would work on the many flavors of Windoze.

I've used it almost daily for more than 2 years now and it works GREAT. I have VM's set up catered to the various networks I have to connect to (for example, some use Netware's Client32, some have 400's w/Client Access, none have both, so I put what I need for each situation in a different VM - keeps code seperated and keeps 3rd party client s/w from stepping on each other).
New That's what QA uses it for.
Our software is browser-based, but there are still dozens of combinations of OS and browser that we have to test.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Re: That's what QA uses it for.
Given that VMware is something like 150 per copy, wouldn't it be a better use of money to just buy a development machine? I guess I'm spoiled - my last development machine was an E10000 :)

I'm sure it works fine in the role of a web development environment, but it "doesn't feel right". Why not just have dedicated development machines? If you need to develop for Windows and for UNIX, you should have a Windows box and a UNIX box.

As for exhorbitant claims, their ads of a couple of years ago made misleading claims about "native" mode and the role of its "virtualization layer". I see now they are talking about "mainframe-class virtual machines" - this is horseshit if they are referring to something like IBM VM on a real 'frame built from the ground up with VMs in mind.
-drl

I'm so happy I could scalp someone. Mark Twain
New Re: That's what QA uses it for.
Given that VMware is something like 150 per copy, wouldn't it be a better use of money to just buy a development machine? I guess I'm spoiled - my last development machine was an E10000 :)
Errrr... for 100 developers? And buy one for each possible software combination? You're kidding, right?

I'm sure it works fine in the role of a web development environment, but it "doesn't feel right". Why not just have dedicated development machines? If you need to develop for Windows and for UNIX, you should have a Windows box and a UNIX box.
Because 1) dedicated machines are a pain in the ass to switch between (IMO) and 2) I like it because when Windows goes south I can just cut it off and restart the VM and 3) if it comes down to it, the company is going to say "no, you don't need to run UNIX on your PC if it means buying you two PCs. Run Windows, and do your UNIX testing on the Solaris box." Bleah.

As for exhorbitant(sic) claims, their ads of a couple of years ago made misleading claims about "native" mode and the role of its "virtualization layer". I see now they are talking about "mainframe-class virtual machines" - this is horseshit if they are referring to something like IBM VM on a real 'frame built from the ground up with VMs in mind.
I don't know about that, but I do know that VMWare has always been rock solid.

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Re: That's what QA uses it for.
150 x 100 = 15k - you can buy seven or eight Netfinity 1.8GHz/128M/40G boxes for that!

You have an excellent point about being forced to choose - given that, then of course you're better off with Windows in VMWare. I've been lucky to have multiple boxes when I really needed them. (When I was doing SMS to 3 versions of OS/2 and 5 versions of Windows, I had 4 boxes :)

Also, pseudobooting Windows does make sense if you have a crashy Windows. Windows 98SE and Windows 2000 seem stable enough that this must not be the main reason you use it.
-drl

I'm so happy I could scalp someone. Mark Twain
New Oooers, a whole 8 boxes.
Right.

As I said, we have *dozens* of configurations we test on in QA. All for a single VMWare license for each QA person.

Another reason to use it is the ability to copy your disk files at any point in time for a fallback position... I'm currently making use of that right now.

VMWare also has undoable disks.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New And don't forget notebooks.
VMWare allows me to run Windoze, Linux, etc. whatever I need, with whatever s/w I need on each VM, all on one notebook. Or maybe Ross has started working for Dell and wants me to buy 3 or 4 notebooks to travel to client sites with?
New My boss uses it like that for demos.
The laptop itself boots Linux (our product runs on a Linux server) and he has a VMWare session to show what it looks like from Windows.

Wade.

"Ah. One of the difficult questions."

New Think about it.
A machine needs space. VMWare does not.

And btw, you can buy a lot more than 8 machines for \ufffd15k.

The costs of buying racking and having someone set them up and care for and feed 15 machines is not inconsequential.

VMWare is a far superior solution in this case.


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New VMWare v. dev boxes & network test platforms

As Scott mentions, one VMWare license is good for as many virtual boxen as you have disk and memory for. The runtime footprint is ~96 MB minimum, and there's a system overhead you're not supposed to exceed, which generally restricts you to 3-4 concurrent virtual machines. Disk storage is dependent on the virtual machine, and can be as little as a few MB, though most "modern" OSs will want 2-4 GB.

\r\n\r\n

VMWare multiplexes a single machine out many times -- you could easily have one or several score virtual configurations, with two or three live at a time, and the ability to "hibernate" a given image on request making swapping between virtual systems very straightforward.

\r\n\r\n

Further, by configuring some "base" systems, with automated tools to install additionally needed applications or configurations, you can support huge numbers of configurations (readily thousands) accessible in a few moments, from a score or so base images. Storing each individual configuration is simply not practicable.

\r\n\r\n

Another little-utilized feature of VMWare is to use it as a network testbed. Because the virtual machines can exist either on an entirely internal (to the host machine) network, or on externally visible network addresses, it's possible to set up and test complext network configurations, including firewall scenarios with "inside", "outside", and gateway system. All this without needing to seperately configure and set up physical boxes. I'll grant that if you're using VMWare strictly to provide access to another OS's applications, you're not getting the full value of the tool. But that doesn't make it worthless by any measure.

\r\n\r\n

My only gripe on VMWare is that virtualization, particularly of IO, can result in slow performance in some situations. The delivery of fully independent, virtualized systems, which act fully autonomously, is above expectations.

--\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
   Keep software free.     Oppose the CBDTPA.     Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
New Can it run on Windows boxen?
Say install it on a W2K box and be able to have windows of 98, 95, ME, XP and NT4? Where can I get info on licensing?
Why should we ask our military to die for cheap oil when the rest of us aren't even being asked to get better mileage?
-[link|http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=14107|Molly Ivins]
New Yeppers...
[link|http://www.vmware.com|VMWare's Website]

Not really cheap... but Cheaper than a TON of machines.

[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!]

Your friendly Homeland Security Officer reminds:
Hold Thumbprint to Screen for 5 seconds, we'll take the imprint, or
Just continue to type on your keyboard, and we'll just sample your DNA.
New Any of you played with Virtual PC?
[link|http://www.digitalriver.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry17c?CID=0&PN=2&SP=10023&SID=3628&PID=451269&V1=451269|Website] It looks like it works about the same as VMWare for about a 100 dollars less per station.

Am I missing something when it comes to a functionality comparison? The stations this will get put on need it to mimic our customer's workstations. Those are almost entirely Windows systems with a few Macs (Our agents already have a Intel and a Mac on their desks.) The problem that has arisen is that since we were bought and our product is now part of a so called suite of applications, our agents now support an expanded number of apps. (Our customer helpdesk {back when we were independant} was known to customers and competition as the best . Someone in upper management noticed this and our location is now the support center for the whole product line.) Some of these apps only work on specific versions of Windows. Bleeggh.

What we would like to do is make sure they all have large hard drives with enough RAM to have 3 or 4 virtual systems running at once. Have any of you seen a workup that compares VMWare with any other virtual system products? I have an aversion to taking the lowest priced solution. But I have no figures to take to the decision makers.

Advice? Links? Opinions?
Why should we ask our military to die for cheap oil when the rest of us aren't even being asked to get better mileage?
-[link|http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=14107|Molly Ivins]
New Re: Any of you played with Virtual PC?
It seems to be a good one. Get the trial for Windows, it runs Linux better than my real hardware.

[link|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]
     Thank God! - (mmoffitt) - (22)
         Re: Thank God! - (deSitter) - (21)
             WTF are you talking about now? -NT - (admin)
             Eh? - (Yendor)
             Now now, children - (drewk) - (18)
                 Way I took it! -NT - (folkert) - (17)
                     Well, Yeah - (deSitter) - (16)
                         I would guess you haven't used it much then. - (admin) - (15)
                             It's also good for handling Winforks. - (mmoffitt) - (13)
                                 That's what QA uses it for. - (admin) - (12)
                                     Re: That's what QA uses it for. - (deSitter) - (11)
                                         Re: That's what QA uses it for. - (admin) - (5)
                                             Re: That's what QA uses it for. - (deSitter) - (4)
                                                 Oooers, a whole 8 boxes. - (admin) - (2)
                                                     And don't forget notebooks. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                         My boss uses it like that for demos. - (static)
                                                 Think about it. - (pwhysall)
                                         VMWare v. dev boxes & network test platforms - (kmself) - (4)
                                             Can it run on Windows boxen? - (Silverlock) - (3)
                                                 Yeppers... - (folkert) - (2)
                                                     Any of you played with Virtual PC? - (Silverlock) - (1)
                                                         Re: Any of you played with Virtual PC? - (orion)
                             Stray thought - - (imric)

Should be pasted on all overpasses.
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