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New SQL Server or DB2?
Pros, cons?

In the distant future things will be on Oracle, so I will be wanting to migrate from one of the above.
-drl
New That being the case ... Postgres
Yeah I know, that wasn't one of the options, but consider this: Postgres has PL/pgSQL, which is very similar to PL/SQL. (It ought to be, that's the target their working towards.) So any development done in it should be more-easily protable in the future. And the experience gained using it will be directly (or nearly so) usable on Oracle.

The big lead Oracle still has is the tools, but the underlying language is getting more similar by the month.
===
Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978|Andrew Grygus]
New Re: SQL Server or DB2?
I am really learning to despise SQL Server. Though I shouldn't blame it 100% on SQL Server as our DB Admin isn't very good.

SQL Server is so bad though that we have got in the habit of truncating and reinserting the data in certain relativly large tables once a month. SQL Server is so bad at maintaining the physical data of the tables on disk that this greatly improves performance, even though the tables in question are fairly static.

Jay
New Re: SQL Server or DB2?
I'm not a fan of anything MS really, but I have to believe this is bad DBAing. After all SQL Server is just Sybase with additions for the MS know-nothing crowd. Sybase was "acceptable" on UNIX.
-drl
New A better DBA?
Sounds like you need a better DBA...

I've done DBA work on DB2 (I'm certified here), Sybase, and SQL Server. I've installed Oracle and done some application work, but I can't say I'm an Oracle DBA.

The principles about indexes, clustering, record locking, etc. are all very similar in these systems.

The differences lie in things like how the SQL optimizer works on each system. DB2 is the best, SQL Server is the worst.

But, a good DBA can work with even the worst product by looking at the Query Plan (SET SHOWPLAN) and finding out if the right indexes are being used. Sometimes, the developer or DBA has to play a few tricks to get the SQL to perform.

SQL Server has problems because it is not architected well.

Finally, if your database is primarily read only, you might be better off with a good old-fashioned ISAM-type database (like FoxPro). These databases perform much better than relational databases when you're talking about static read-only type data, because they don't carry the overhead of transaction logging.

New SQL Server
[link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=57664|Read about my recent experience with SQL Server 2000] you may want to consider using an older version unless you like half the database going missing or reventing to an earlier version or some other stuff like that. Maybe when SQL Server 2000 SP3 comes out they will fix it? No explination can be found so far for why this happened.

I can't say about DB2, I tried it before but forgot about what I did with it. Go get the trial of DB2 and see for yourself what it can do. Obviously since I last evaluated it, it got changed. I hope for the better.

But if you have a small shop, you can get by with a small database for a while. Until a lot of people start hitting it, like 20 or more, then consider one of the bigger ones.

Office XP Pro and SQL Server 2000, both have MSDE 2000 on it in the MSDE directory. It is basically a mini-SQL Server 2000 without all the extra stuff. My Coworkers hate it for some reason, don't ask me why. They forced me to take it off of my laptop. Apparently I committed a sin by installing it for development work at home for the firm I work for? I still cannot connect to their SQL Server over the VPN they gave me. So I tried to copy the database to the MSDE Server so I could work at home. Silly me, trying to get work at home when every force in the Universe is conspiraing against me!

[link|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]
New Definitely DB2!
I did a very cool thing this morning.

One of my developers was experiencing a database hangup when running two apparently unrelated programs simultaneously. The whole system would just freeze up.

This time I managed to start a trace prior to the freeze up and captured that locks, SQL statements, and UOWs (units of work). It turned out that this guy was using statements like ALTER TABLE in the constructor of his Java code, after he had set autocommit to false (meaning you have to explicitly commit transactions in the database, instead of commiting every statement automagically).

The ALTER TABLE was locking the SYSTABLES (system catalog) table, preventing any further database action from occuring, until the first connection finally committed a transaction.

I love the trace and audit features of DB2, because they really help me solve problems like this one.

After I confronted him with the trace, he said "Well I THOUGHT I wasn't doing anything!" And he promptly fixed his constructors to commit the transactions right after doing them, and now everyone is happy.

My problem with databases like POSTGRES, is that you don't have those kinds of trace tools to get you out of problems, when your users get you into them. Yes, you have the source code. And yes, you could eventually write a tool to figure out what is going on, but I would rather have it right there ready to use.

DB2 "GET MONITOR SWITCHES"
DB2 "UPDATE MONITOR SWITCHES USING BUFFERPOOL ON LOCK ON STATEMENT ON TABLE ON UOW ON"
DB2 "GET SNAPSHOT FOR DB ON xxxx ALL"
DB2 "UPDATE MONITOR SWITCHES USING xxx OFF"

look at your output.

New There is another DB2 and it sucks.
DB2/400 that is. My understanding is that DB2/400 is a "different product" than the DB2 that runs on linux/AIX/etc. Dunno for sure, but got that from a DB2/400 support goob at IBM. There is no way DB2/400 is the product MS Sql Server is. It won't scale, but for the money, MS Sql Server is a darned good little workgroup database, imo.

bcnu,
Mikem
New My Take
If you have a good DBA and a good NT Administrator, they will do fine with either one.

Microsoft has better GUI tools, better integration between database and Word/Excel/Project/Access/etc. But you would expect that.

DB2 on NT, Linux, or Unix optimizes better, runs more reliably, runs faster, and scales better ( with the right personnel). But it requires more DBA attention, isn't self-maintaining, and there are "features" that SQL Server has, that DB2 doesn't, like adding a new column into the middle of the existing table. You can add a column in the middle in DB2, by exporting the data, dropping the table, recreating the table, and reimporting the table. But SQL Server appears to do it automagically.

So, if you're light on DBA skills, need "idiot-workable" integration, then SQL Server is the DB for you.

BTW, the costs are about the same per server, (and most people don't realize that), so the decision really does come down to what you want to do, how fast, how scalable, and the skill level of your personnel.

We run both in our shop, DB2 UDB for Unix and MS SQL Server.

My Thoughts
New Take 2 and call me in the morning
adding a new column into the middle of the existing table.

sigh. This really shouldn't be done. What I mean is, a Database Administrator shouldn't be exposing the physical layout of the tables to the developers/users. All access should be through views defined by the Data Administrator. In many shops the two roles are comined but they really are separate concerns. Ie. physical data model vs. logical data model. Enforcing table access through views means you can change the physical data model with a minimum of impact to the applications and users. To add a column: alter the base table, redefine the view(s), putting the column wherever you like, and away you go. Want to delete a column? Just change the view (making sure the underlying table accepts nulls in the missing column). Ah, nulls... I'll stop there.

Have fun,
Carl Forde, a former DB2 DBA & System Administrator
New DB2/400
I haven't worked with anything AS/400, so I really can't comment, except maybe to say that I think the AS/400 is IBM's version of the HP 3000 series, which just got canned.

With all that's going on in the Unix server space, IBM really needs to get an AS/400-like VM running on AIX/pSeries, then put the AS/400 out of its misery, like HP did with their 3000 series.

The only reason that I can imagine that IBM still sells AS/400 is because people still buy them (and software, and support contracts into eternity...)
Heck, a few years back, I went into a blinds factory that was still running an IBM Series 36. When I explained that they could replace the system with an IBM Pentium that would be much faster, they said they were "happy" with their System 36.

Maybe that's why Microsoft has finally decided to sell software subscriptions. So companies will finally give up on old DOS machines, and there won't be some goob running Windows NT 3.51 in 2020 (but there will be).

Glen
New Re: OS/400 emulation.
Isn't that what Pentium Blade Servers are supposed to be about? I dunno. And I agree w/all your "My Take" post. Some of my criticism of DB2/400 may be a little unfair. The only client I have that uses it doesn't have strong DBA talent around. That said, Red Hat (or somebody, maybe IBM?) sent me a CD w/DB2 UDB on it. I installed it and ran it for a while. It seemed okay, with your proviso's. Still, I'm probably as anti-MS as anyone and even I realize that MS Sql Server is not all that bad, in it's place ;-)

An Oracle it ain't, but not that many people need Oracle. And, to be perfectly honest, of the two, I prefer Sybase.
     SQL Server or DB2? - (deSitter) - (11)
         That being the case ... Postgres - (drewk)
         Re: SQL Server or DB2? - (JayMehaffey) - (2)
             Re: SQL Server or DB2? - (deSitter)
             A better DBA? - (gdaustin)
         SQL Server - (orion)
         Definitely DB2! - (gdaustin) - (5)
             There is another DB2 and it sucks. - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                 My Take - (gdaustin) - (1)
                     Take 2 and call me in the morning - (cforde)
                 DB2/400 - (gdaustin) - (1)
                     Re: OS/400 emulation. - (mmoffitt)

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