Glazed Tiles?

. . and only a few (most rather deadly) versions were known to Europeans in the colonial days, for all had need make their way across the seas from Peru (and surrounding territories).

Nightshades cross-breed and mutate at an alarming rate, so cataloging them presents the same problem the ancient Egyptian priesthood had cataloging the Gods and Goddesses of the land. You start at one end of the Nile, and by time you get to the other end, all the ones where you started are new.

All are churning pharmaceutical factories and not to be messed with unawares.

The Black (and deadly) Nightshade of Europe was used by Italian court beauties (beladonna) in sub-lethal doses to dialate the pupils of their eyes, considered a mark of outstanding beauty. This practice is obviously absurd from our perspective (see botox). What may have happened to their minds may have contributed to the mythology.
Eggplants (so called from chicken/goose egg sized bright white varieties (easily available here in Los Angeles)) were known to Europeans from the time of Marco Polo (who remarked that the Northern Chineese ate "vermichelli instead of rice", misinterpreted by retarded "educators" to imply Marco Polo brought pasta from China, while if Pasta were not already common in Italy, vermichelli would have literally meant "little worms" (but there's no sense trying to rationalize the authoritarian ignorance of schoolteachers).

Former girlfriend: "I can't eat that, I'm allergic to Eggplant - it stings my mouth". I: "It stings everyones mouth". She: "Oh - well why the hell didn't anyone tell me that!".

--- from the New World ---

Tobacco which holds a huge segment of the human population in bondage of addiction. Also Peruvian Tree Tobacco, which grows lush and green here in Southern California in vacant places too hostile for anything else to grow at all.

Now, some years back, I found in an Armo (Armenian) grocery down in Glendale, blocks of dried tobacco leaf, so I bought a block and brought it home. I crushed some up in a clay pipe and proceeded to enjoy a smoke. Fortunately, I was in a hurry to get up and get dressed to go out, because, had I enjoyed that smoke a bit longer, I wouldn't have been able to get up at all. This was not the gentle fermented product of American commerce (addiction), it was tobacco "as God made it", just dried and blocked. Fortunately, I recognized the effect from the Peruvian tree tobacco plant that grew out front, which I had dried some of and sampled - you just don't expect that sort of thing in a "commercial product".

Potatos in varieties from bright yellow through red to deep purple and plain brown. From Peru they were brought to Italy, where (because they contained a lot of starch) it was thought possible to make bread from them (spurred on by continuous starvation in Europe from failures of the wheat crop). The Wops (probably from gwappo ("pal"), not from "WithOut Papers") couldn't do it, so the Krauts figured their "superior intellect" would make the job easy, but tried in vain. Finally giving up, they fed these worthless potato things to the pigs. The ever observant Krauts observed that "20 million pigs can not be wrong", and learned to cook potatoes as vegetables. Indeed, superior intellect (pigs) did win out.

From Krautland, the potato migrated, (packed in cases of munitions addressed to Irish revolutionaries), to the "Emerald Isle" (also plagued by wheat crop failures), and became more than somewhat popular.

Sometime later, there was the great Irish Potato Famine, when the potato crop failed. Actually, there was not so much a potato problem as a "monoculture" problem with the "right kind of potato". Other varieties wer healthy, but the Irish wouldn't eat them. So powerful are food prejudices among primitive people that they'd rather starve than eat a different variety - just as in Vietnam during the war, the locals wouldn't eat California rice, because it wasn't "the right kind", so they sold it off to other countries for a dime on the dollar to buy the "right kind" locally. The more sophisticated Japanese have no such prejudice, so Japan has slapped a quote on how many bags of rice can be brought back by tourists visiting California.

Meanwhile, the Ruskies and Polaks learned about potatoes in Kraut prisoner of war camps and applied their own unique interpretation for preparation of anything that will engage in the starch / sugar / alcohol trasition phase continuum.

The Frogs also had serious wheat crop failures, so the King of the Frogs offered a substantial cash prize to anyone who could come up with a substitute crop. Parmantier, who had spent plenty of time in Kraut prisoner of war kamps during the Franco Prussian fiasco, had been introduced to potatoes in many forms (boiled, boiled, boiled and boiled) and proposed this vegetable as the solution.

Parmantier won the prize, but the stubborn Frogs refused to plant, grow or eat potatoes. Parmantier and the King got together and came up with a plan. They planted a Royal Field with potatoes and kept it under armed guard 22 hours a day (the guards being off duty for the hours between 2:00am and 4:00am. Within months, potatoes were grown all over Frogland and fetched a good price. Today, all Gormet dishes containing potatoes are called ([something] Parmantier).

I will relate the story of the invention of French Fries (definitely not true) and Potato Chips (definitely true) some other time.

Tomatoes were brought to Spain from Peru, and shipped from there to Italy (where consumption of Nightshade berries had some history). They were not a red variety, but a golden one, thus the name "golden apples" in several Latin tongues. Since they were presumed toxic, they were also assigned aphrodesiac properties.

Since tomatoes were known as Nightshades, early tomato sauces were cooked for a long time, as native nightshade berries would be to detoxify them. The "Italian plum tomato" is favored for Italian sauces, not because it is the most flavorful, but because it is quite solid, yielding the largest volume of sauce per pound purchased. Italian sauces are traditionally cooked for a long time because, until refrigeration, keeping the stuff simmering was the best method of preservation.

Chili Peppers, in which I am indulging at the moment as a "significant" ingredient in an 8# jar of Kimchi (very spicy Korean Saurekraut), and will indulge in again at breakfast (additional Thai chilis spicing a pot of Hot Chili ramen) come in a zillion varieties neutral (green/red bells) to mild (Jalapenos) to spicy (Serrannos) to "Hot Damn" (Habaneros), and change shape, size, color, flavour and hotness whenever they please.

Incidentally, we have developed a non-hot variety of Jalapeno peppers specifically for export to New York, so the "Mexican" restaurants there can serve "authentic cuisine" with "genuine Jalapeno peppers" without devistating the populace (I would say more about the populace, but it's Sept 11th today).

And on we go to the King of the Nightshades, Datura. I remember the great drug experimentation of the '60s. Everything was indulged in with fearless abandon, even at risk of encarceration, except Datura, which grows in vacant lots all around here and is perfectly legal. Peyote was much in demand, but Datura was presumed the preserve of the very highest rank of Shamans. Its rep was that if you did not have yourself totally together, Datura would have you so totally apart in such small fragments you would never be put together again. All the kings hourses and all the kings men would find reason to rush off and work on the Humpty Dumpty case. "If you are on LSD, you kinda know you're on a drug trip, but Datura transports you completely into an alien world with no point of reference whatever - you are truly on your own."

Now, many years ago, I talked to a young lady who's boyfriend decided he would sample Datura, but it had quite a rep, so he decided to do a practice run on the much milder Black Nightshade. On that, he took a flying leap out of a third story window (fortunately his fall was broken (as was he) by a second story balcony). He decided in the name of prudence, not to try the real thing.

Incidentally, a little dried Datura leaf mixed with Tobacco and rolled up in "papers" is reputed to be the best ever remedy for athsma attacks, but has been heavily repressed by the pharmaceutical industry because it can not patented (unless it can be redefined as software).

This treatise brought to you by the fact that lovely Chandra served me one more than my usual quota of four beers at Tin Horn Flats this evening. Actually, to be fair, Chandra served only four, the fifth was served by the nice owner lady.

Disclaimer: for the Politically Correct, who might be offended by certain ethnic references above, my extraction is Teuton, Mongol and Slav - all of which groups are noted for "immaginative" methods of "conflict resolution", so I suggest you interpret them as "poetic license".

Post #51,405 by altmann 9/11/02 1:12:13 PM Reply	Glazed Tiles? CNN just mentioned the ship is carrying glazed tiles and other stuff. Could it be the [link\|http://www.hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q1583.html\|glaze] on the tiles they are detecting? -- Chris Altmann
Post #51,423 by SpiceWare 9/11/02 2:16:17 PM Reply	Interesting thanx for the info. Early uranium glazes also contained large amounts of lead which, like uranium, could leach out in acid foods and may have presented an equal, if not greater, health hazard. I've read that the leaching out of lead is most likely caused people to originally think tomatoes were poisonous. Darrell Spice, Jr. [link\|http://home.houston.rr.com/spiceware/\|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
Post #51,434 by Andrew Grygus 9/11/02 3:18:51 PM Reply	Tomatos No, tomatoes were presumed poisonous because they are most obviously (to anyone with plant knowledge) exactly what they are - they are Nightshade berries. The rest of the plant contains enough solanine toxin to make you good and sick. Another commonly eaten Nightshade is the potato, which is all toxic except the root tubers. Sauces started to be made from tomatoes quite early, and they were cooked for a long time, because that was the treatment used to detoxify the berries of Nightshades more familiar to Europeans. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #51,438 by SpiceWare 9/11/02 3:48:57 PM Reply	makes more sense I never looked into it, though I did wonder about it considering how long it would take the lead level to build up enough to be a noticeable problem. Darrell Spice, Jr. [link\|http://home.houston.rr.com/spiceware/\|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
Post #51,455 by ben_tilly 9/11/02 7:25:04 PM Reply	Particularly since... The same people who were scared of tomatos used lead to sweeten their wine! Cheers, Ben "Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly." - [link\|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html\|Walter Mead]
Post #51,487 by Andrew Grygus 9/12/02 2:56:14 AM Reply	Nightshades are a mighty clan . . . . and only a few (most rather deadly) versions were known to Europeans in the colonial days, for all had need make their way across the seas from Peru (and surrounding territories). Nightshades cross-breed and mutate at an alarming rate, so cataloging them presents the same problem the ancient Egyptian priesthood had cataloging the Gods and Goddesses of the land. You start at one end of the Nile, and by time you get to the other end, all the ones where you started are new. All are churning pharmaceutical factories and not to be messed with unawares. The Black (and deadly) Nightshade of Europe was used by Italian court beauties (beladonna) in sub-lethal doses to dialate the pupils of their eyes, considered a mark of outstanding beauty. This practice is obviously absurd from our perspective (see botox). What may have happened to their minds may have contributed to the mythology. Eggplants (so called from chicken/goose egg sized bright white varieties (easily available here in Los Angeles)) were known to Europeans from the time of Marco Polo (who remarked that the Northern Chineese ate "vermichelli instead of rice", misinterpreted by retarded "educators" to imply Marco Polo brought pasta from China, while if Pasta were not already common in Italy, vermichelli would have literally meant "little worms" (but there's no sense trying to rationalize the authoritarian ignorance of schoolteachers). Former girlfriend: "I can't eat that, I'm allergic to Eggplant - it stings my mouth". I: "It stings everyones mouth". She: "Oh - well why the hell didn't anyone tell me that!". --- from the New World --- Tobacco which holds a huge segment of the human population in bondage of addiction. Also Peruvian Tree Tobacco, which grows lush and green here in Southern California in vacant places too hostile for anything else to grow at all. Now, some years back, I found in an Armo (Armenian) grocery down in Glendale, blocks of dried tobacco leaf, so I bought a block and brought it home. I crushed some up in a clay pipe and proceeded to enjoy a smoke. Fortunately, I was in a hurry to get up and get dressed to go out, because, had I enjoyed that smoke a bit longer, I wouldn't have been able to get up at all. This was not the gentle fermented product of American commerce (addiction), it was tobacco "as God made it", just dried and blocked. Fortunately, I recognized the effect from the Peruvian tree tobacco plant that grew out front, which I had dried some of and sampled - you just don't expect that sort of thing in a "commercial product". Potatos in varieties from bright yellow through red to deep purple and plain brown. From Peru they were brought to Italy, where (because they contained a lot of starch) it was thought possible to make bread from them (spurred on by continuous starvation in Europe from failures of the wheat crop). The Wops (probably from gwappo ("pal"), not from "WithOut Papers") couldn't do it, so the Krauts figured their "superior intellect" would make the job easy, but tried in vain. Finally giving up, they fed these worthless potato things to the pigs. The ever observant Krauts observed that "20 million pigs can not be wrong", and learned to cook potatoes as vegetables. Indeed, superior intellect (pigs) did win out. From Krautland, the potato migrated, (packed in cases of munitions addressed to Irish revolutionaries), to the "Emerald Isle" (also plagued by wheat crop failures), and became more than somewhat popular. Sometime later, there was the great Irish Potato Famine, when the potato crop failed. Actually, there was not so much a potato problem as a "monoculture" problem with the "right kind of potato". Other varieties wer healthy, but the Irish wouldn't eat them. So powerful are food prejudices among primitive people that they'd rather starve than eat a different variety - just as in Vietnam during the war, the locals wouldn't eat California rice, because it wasn't "the right kind", so they sold it off to other countries for a dime on the dollar to buy the "right kind" locally. The more sophisticated Japanese have no such prejudice, so Japan has slapped a quote on how many bags of rice can be brought back by tourists visiting California. Meanwhile, the Ruskies and Polaks learned about potatoes in Kraut prisoner of war camps and applied their own unique interpretation for preparation of anything that will engage in the starch / sugar / alcohol trasition phase continuum. The Frogs also had serious wheat crop failures, so the King of the Frogs offered a substantial cash prize to anyone who could come up with a substitute crop. Parmantier, who had spent plenty of time in Kraut prisoner of war kamps during the Franco Prussian fiasco, had been introduced to potatoes in many forms (boiled, boiled, boiled and boiled) and proposed this vegetable as the solution. Parmantier won the prize, but the stubborn Frogs refused to plant, grow or eat potatoes. Parmantier and the King got together and came up with a plan. They planted a Royal Field with potatoes and kept it under armed guard 22 hours a day (the guards being off duty for the hours between 2:00am and 4:00am. Within months, potatoes were grown all over Frogland and fetched a good price. Today, all Gormet dishes containing potatoes are called ([something] Parmantier). So then an English Laird, observing the lower classes of Paddyland and Frogland fattening on potatoes, decided they would do also to feed Scots, Taffys, Cockneys and other regrettable but useful lowlife. He ordered a field of potatoes planted, and in good time, organized an "invitation only" dinner party at which this wonderful foodstock would be sampled by persons of proper breeding before being distributed to the peasants. His chef was ordered to prepare the dinner, featuring the new crop. Chef, while suitably Frog, had not been home for some time, so went out and observed the crop, and it sure looked like greens to him, so he cooked them up as greens, and a good number of Merry England's finest were quite less then merry for a few days. This pretty much ended the importation of potatoes for some time. I will relate the story of the invention of French Fries (definitely not true) and Potato Chips (definitely true) some other time. Tomatoes were brought to Spain from Peru, and shipped from there to Italy (where consumption of Nightshade berries had some history). They were not a red variety, but a golden one, thus the name "golden apples" in several Latin tongues. Since they were presumed toxic, they were also assigned aphrodesiac properties. Since tomatoes were known as Nightshades, early tomato sauces were cooked for a long time, as native nightshade berries would be to detoxify them. The "Italian plum tomato" is favored for Italian sauces, not because it is the most flavorful, but because it is quite solid, yielding the largest volume of sauce per pound purchased. Italian sauces are traditionally cooked for a long time because, until refrigeration, keeping the stuff simmering was the best method of preservation. Chili Peppers, in which I am indulging at the moment as a "significant" ingredient in an 8# jar of Kimchi (very spicy Korean Saurekraut), and will indulge in again at breakfast (additional Thai chilis spicing a pot of Hot Chili ramen) come in a zillion varieties neutral (green/red bells) to mild (Jalapenos) to spicy (Serrannos) to "Hot Damn" (Habaneros), and change shape, size, color, flavour and hotness whenever they please. Incidentally, we have developed a non-hot variety of Jalapeno peppers specifically for export to New York, so the "Mexican" restaurants there can serve "authentic cuisine" with "genuine Jalapeno peppers" without devistating the populace (I would say more about the populace, but it's Sept 11th today). And on we go to the King of the Nightshades, Datura. I remember the great drug experimentation of the '60s. Everything was indulged in with fearless abandon, even at risk of encarceration, except Datura, which grows in vacant lots all around here and is perfectly legal. Peyote was much in demand, but Datura was presumed the preserve of the very highest rank of Shamans. Its rep was that if you did not have yourself totally together, Datura would have you so totally apart in such small fragments you would never be put together again. All the kings hourses and all the kings men would find reason to rush off and work on the Humpty Dumpty case. "If you are on LSD, you kinda know you're on a drug trip, but Datura transports you completely into an alien world with no point of reference whatever - you are truly on your own." Now, many years ago, I talked to a young lady who's boyfriend decided he would sample Datura, but it had quite a rep, so he decided to do a practice run on the much milder Black Nightshade. On that, he took a flying leap out of a third story window (fortunately his fall was broken (as was he) by a second story balcony). He decided in the name of prudence, not to try the real thing. Incidentally, a little dried Datura leaf mixed with Tobacco and rolled up in "papers" is reputed to be the best ever remedy for athsma attacks, but has been heavily repressed by the pharmaceutical industry because it can not patented (unless it can be redefined as software). This treatise brought to you by the fact that lovely Chandra served me one more than my usual quota of four beers at Tin Horn Flats this evening. Actually, to be fair, Chandra served only four, the fifth was served by the nice owner lady. Disclaimer: for the Politically Correct, who might be offended by certain ethnic references above, my extraction is Teuton, Mongol and Slav - all of which groups are noted for "immaginative" methods of "conflict resolution", so I suggest you interpret them as "poetic license". [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #51,491 by ben_tilly 9/12/02 7:11:13 AM Reply	You know your food history! To this I only feel like adding minor pieces of trivia. For those who misssed the botox reference, here is [link\|http://www.howstuffworks.com/botox1.htm\|more about botox]. I will leave the true history of how George Crum's revenge backfired to you. And here is [link\|http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/07/010726103553.htm\|why chili peppers are hot]. Note that humans are the only mammal known which is perverse enough to actually eat them. Which complicates the usual kind of food testing we might do with lab animals on anything involving peppers - our lab animals are even pickier about heat than New Yorkers! Cheers, Ben "Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly." - [link\|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html\|Walter Mead]
Post #51,498 by boxley 9/12/02 9:25:22 AM Reply	Your tobbacco story remined me of "Black Bull" In alaska the grandmere's of 60yo plus order chunked sweet Virginia tobbacco rolls where the leaves are coiled tightly like a cigar and dipped or cured in molasses. They then order a tree fungus from somewhere. They crush the fungis and shred the tobbacco into it and mix in some copenhagen snuff for spice. Tried a chaw once, wasnt good for squat the rest of the day. Will sit you down to contemplate. The ladies thought it was highly amusing. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/Resume.html\|skill set] [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/index.html\|boxley's home page] qui mori didicit servire dedidicit
Post #51,521 by drewk 9/12/02 11:57:44 AM Reply	Alton Brown should have you on You do watch [link\|http://foodtv.com/foodtv/show/0,6525,EA,00.html\|Gopod Eats], don't you? === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #51,528 by Andrew Grygus 9/12/02 12:19:44 PM Reply	Sorry, my TV died in '58 . . Actually, traveling friends left one here a few years ago, but it gets only snow since you need cable to get much of anything in this deep, narrow valley. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #51,535 by drewk 9/12/02 1:03:07 PM Reply	How ... how do you live? How do you know what you're supposed to wear, or eat, or like? How do you know who you're supposed to vote for? What do you do, think? For yourself? [shudder] === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]

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