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New I'm not completely unsympathetic to your argument. I bought Moore's Trumpland this week-end.
I bought it because I was a gigantic Hillary fan in 1992/3 and through her husband's first term. My dad and I agreed that the country would be better off if she were president instead of her husband. She was savaged by nearly everyone: Big insurance, Reagan Era Republicans, the Meedja and not least of all her own husband and the great unwashed at large. I bought and watched Trumpland because I thought if anyone could give me a good reason to vote for HRC, it would be as likely to be Michael Moore as anyone. He almost had me. During his act, he makes people recall the savagery Hillary had to endure during the 1990's, how she at least tried to get us universal healthcare, but the health insurance industry was able to convince the majority of Murican Morons that was a bad thing. It famously failed and has never been attempted since, Moore rightly points out. He said the people abandoned her back then, and he's largely correct. He focused on her early days (that time when I was a fan) and basically said to look at the changes she'd made to promote her husband. He said he was hoping that the past 12 years or so she'd been laying back in the weeds, waiting for her opportunity when she had real power. That after she was elected it would be up to all of us to keep her honest and on the Progressive track.

He almost had me. But upon further reflection, I realized what he was saying is akin to what you've been saying, "Vote for her in the hope that she isn't really what she appears to be." I've done that sort of voting for most of my adult life and I'm finished doing that. I will henceforth cease to ever again vote for the evil of two lessers. If no one on the ballot represents the policies I support, then I will abstain from voting. You may differ, but refusing to support someone who does not share your values and does not support the policies you support is the only sane approach to the solemn duty of voting.
bcnu,
Mikem

I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right.
Christopher Hitchens.
New So you were OK with Bernie?
His waffling on gun legislation?

His support of the "$1T" F-35?

Where are his federal tax returns, anyway?

Why is it you give Bernie a pass on things like this, but Hillary is a "lesser evil" that you cannot actually support now - when a know-nothing brain-damaged fascist bully has the GOP nomination - under (seemingly) any circumstance?

Cheers,
Scott.
New He supports airplanes and guns and that's supposed to make him a bad guy with me? :-)
I admit Bernie is not great on War issues. But to say he is as hawkish as Hillary is a bit much, don't you think? Also, despite what you may think, I am not looking for the perfect candidate. I'm looking for a candidate who, on the whole, holds positions I support and does not support any positions I am adamantly against. Like, for instance, the USA Patriot Act, the bank bailout (I love how capitalists are all about capitalism until they need socialism to save them), the Iraq War, allowing banks to "capitalize education" for the benefit of their shareholders, and so on. Hillary has embraced the contrary view to mine on many of the issues that are most important to me. I also do not care much for the way she (and some of her supporters) have run the Clinton campaign. From collusion with the DNC to the "He spent his honeymoon in the Soviet Union! He's a Commie!", to the invention of the mythic "BernieBros" and on and on. Let's just take one example of the dripping propaganda that spewed from HRC's campaign:
Senator Bernie Sanders's long-ago "honeymoon" in the Soviet Union is held up by his opponents as evidence of dubious judgment, and even Communist sympathies or anti-American tendencies. The self-described socialist was questioned about the visit during a debate of Democratic presidential candidates in October as a way to raise doubts about his electability.

Those descriptions and concerns are based on distortions and exaggerations: The trip, which began the day after his wedding with his second wife, Jane, in May 1988, was undertaken as part of Sanders' official duties as mayor of Burlington, Vermont. And in any case, most of his critics seem to have forgotten that the Soviet Union at the time was hardly the place for an admirer of communism to find comfort.

Under Sanders, Burlington developed sister-city programs with places that reflected his sympathies, notably Puerta Cabezas, Nicaragua. That pairing was in keeping with Sanders' opposition to President Ronald Reagan's attempts to undermine the leftist Sandinista government. Sanders and the Burlington Board of Aldermen even wrote angry letters demanding that the president "stop killing the innocent people of Nicaragua."

Burlington also had a link-up with the city of Yaroslavl, in Russia. But as Sanders wrote in his 1998 political memoir, "Outsider in the White House," the motivations were quite different:

Like the Puerto Cabezas project, the sister-city program with Yaroslavl has been very successful. Each has different constituencies of support. Puerto Cabezas mostly attracted the energy of left-wing activists who were initially involved because of their support for the Sandinista Revolution and opposition to U.S. intervention in Central America. The Yaroslavl project received more broad-based backing, including from a number of business people in the city.

http://origin-www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-02-11/how-bernie-sanders-spent-his-soviet-honeymoon

In the end, I think Hillary was beaten down in the 1990's and came to, essentially, give up hope for progress and instead (and here I am being pretty charitable) focus on incrementally decreasing the rate of damage. Moore wants me to believe that's not the real her and vote for her based upon what she once was, not what all the evidence suggests she is today. I think that is a fool's errand.
bcnu,
Mikem

I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right.
Christopher Hitchens.
New I am
The core of his message has been the same since I first encountered him around '92: things are not going to get better, and will continue to get worse, if we do not rein in the greed that is now running unchecked. Events since then pretty much have borne that out.

No one I know here has ever considered Sanders a saint (we knew he was Jewish ;) Politicians will end up with dirty hands but of anyone in this campaign, he is the one that has devolved the least. That is why I voted for Sanders in the primaries. And I put my vote against Trump in the mail two days ago.

And from there, it went left all the way down ballot. Although, quite a few here are intrigued to see what would happen to a certain policy if the GOP wins the Governor's race... [The one where the Governor is always driven by a state trooper: http://speed51.com/phil-scott-racing-to-win-the-milk-bowl-and-the-state-house/]

And as I'm writing this, one of the Bernie for Unicorn wranglers is bouncing off the answering machine. Aye...
New Good post. Thanks.
     So, President Trump. - (pwhysall) - (67)
         Probably a lot like Brexit -NT - (drook) - (1)
             Re: Probably a lot like Brexit - (pwhysall)
         Sam Wang still says it's Hillary's and nothing has changed in many months. - (Another Scott) - (2)
             Re: so many of Hillary's voters aren't assumed to be interested in voting - (a6l6e6x)
             Interesting analysis at Vox - (pwhysall)
         no, its a clinton landslide, I have been assured by stalwart clintonians. - (boxley)
         Well.. PBS--our ~Beeb?--has been showing the "Eyes on the Prize" doc. ..generate some Backbone? - (Ashton)
         We're fairly well doomed either way. - (mmoffitt) - (49)
             Re: We're fairly well doomed either way. - (Another Scott) - (48)
                 You did not contrast that with the Trump plan. - (a6l6e6x)
                 Ah yes, her public view -NT - (boxley) - (7)
                     She has an actual record you could examine if you'd like. -NT - (Another Scott) - (6)
                         Curious that no one is reporting on the good emails - (malraux) - (1)
                             Yup. - (Another Scott)
                         i thought you said she has never been convicted? -NT - (boxley) - (3)
                             nyuk, nyuk, nyuk. :-) -NT - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                 You could have said the record went platinum! :) -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                     D'Oh! :-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                 You might want to look at that chart again. - (mmoffitt) - (38)
                     The rich get richer when the economy does well. Film at 11. - (Another Scott) - (37)
                         So, nothing wrong with wealth distribution here, move along. - (mmoffitt) - (36)
                             Eh? - (Another Scott) - (35)
                                 How about increasing the top rate *BACK* to 70%? You know, the Pre-Reagan rate, 30.4% higher. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (34)
                                     How about it? - (Another Scott) - (33)
                                         Oh sure. Nothing happens fast. Reagan and Bush's cuts were incremental, of course. - (mmoffitt) - (32)
                                             I don't call Reagan's tax cuts "progress" myself. YMMV. ;-) -NT - (Another Scott) - (31)
                                                 So bad things happen fast, but we have to be patient for good things? - (mmoffitt) - (30)
                                                     So who should we elect instead? - (drook) - (29)
                                                         As I've already said, I think it doesn't matter much. - (mmoffitt) - (28)
                                                             Bernie who can't get hardly anyone to co-sponsor his legislation? That Bernie? - (Another Scott) - (27)
                                                                 The Amendment King. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (26)
                                                                     Meh. - (Another Scott) - (25)
                                                                         It's EASY to pass PRO WALL STREET/BIG PHARMA/BANKSTER/MIC legislation. HTH. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (24)
                                                                             Trump is the one who wants to do that. Yet somehow Hillary is the evil one....? -NT - (Another Scott) - (23)
                                                                                 See: TARP, Patriot Act, Wall St speeches, etc. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (22)
                                                                                     Re: See: TARP, Patriot Act, Wall St speeches, etc. - (Another Scott) - (21)
                                                                                         were you speaking about senator obama, the prez obama just steamrolled over it -NT - (boxley)
                                                                                         Dude. Enough with the binary thinking. - (mmoffitt) - (19)
                                                                                             Re: Not voting for Hillary is not the same thing as voting for Trump. - (a6l6e6x) - (16)
                                                                                                 More than that. - (Another Scott) - (15)
                                                                                                     Funny that. - (mmoffitt) - (14)
                                                                                                         No, it's not funny. - (Another Scott) - (13)
                                                                                                             I'm not completely unsympathetic to your argument. I bought Moore's Trumpland this week-end. - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                                                                                                 So you were OK with Bernie? - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                                                                                                     He supports airplanes and guns and that's supposed to make him a bad guy with me? :-) - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                                     I am - (scoenye) - (1)
                                                                                                                         Good post. Thanks. -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                                                                             I just reread a part of your post and you COULD NOT be more wrong. - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                                                                                                                 Yeah, Bill was just a Taft Republican - (Another Scott) - (6)
                                                                                                                     Riddle me this. If "A President is constrained by his/her times ..." - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                                                                                         NAFTA wasn't just one person pushing/stopping it. - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                                                                                                             700,000 of your countrymen would disagree about the destruction. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                                                                                                 "without allowing for the cross-border movement of labor" that is what was wrong with it - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                                                                     It, like everything else in this country, wasn't written for labor. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                                                 Dunno. - (Another Scott)
                                                                                             Not voting for Hillary turned out to be EXACTLY the same thing as voting for Trump, dinnit? -NT - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                                                                 Not for me. My failure to vote for her meant nothing. - (mmoffitt)
         Perhaps the most important thing to note. - (mmoffitt) - (8)
             Meh. - (Another Scott) - (7)
                 Bernie would have buried Trump. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (6)
                     Only in your dreams. - (Another Scott) - (5)
                         I don't agree with this - (malraux) - (4)
                             Bernie has different baggage. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                 yup, hers to lose as she had the entire DNC and press in her pocket -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                     Amen. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                 This Neo-McCarthyism is getting creepy. -NT - (mmoffitt)
         Dupe. -NT - (mmoffitt)

The names have been changed to protect the innocent.
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