Radar track, allegedly

Post #406,511 by scoenye 11/24/15 6:24:24 PM Reply	Radar track, allegedly http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34907983 - first static image in the article. (That is not a loop-de-loop, there were two Russian planes involved. The other one veered and did not get fired on.)
Post #406,517 by Another Scott 11/24/15 8:28:27 PM Reply	Putin's been testing them for weeks. He apparently is willing to get his people killed to be able to do what he wants. Ergodan and the Turkish military probably see no conceivable downside to their need to be seen as protecting Turkey's sovereignty. TheAviationist: Russian planes deployed to Syria violated the Turkish airspace twice in the last couple of days. According to NATO, the violations occurred “on 3 October and 4 October by Russian Air Force SU-30 and SU-24 aircraft in the Hatay region. The aircraft in question entered Turkish airspace despite Turkish authorities’ clear, timely and repeated warnings. In accordance with NATO practice, Turkish fighter aircraft responded to these incursions by closing to identify the intruder, after which the Russian planes departed Turkish airspace.” Some more (sometimes contradictory) details appeared on the Turkish media outlets: although the first reports said the aircraft (initially IDed as Mig-29 Fulcrums – a type flown by the Syrian Air Force and not deployed in theater by the RuAF) breached into the Turkish airspace for 5 miles, according to Ankara, the Russian Su-30SM multirole plane violated Tukey’s airspace by “only” some hundreds of meters and returned to Syria after it was intercepted by two F-16s from the Turkish Air Force out of 10 flying CAP (Combat Air Patrol) near the border. Today's incident: On Nov. 24, a Russian Air Force Su-24M belonging to the contingent deployed to Latakia, in western Syria, was shot down by a Turkish Air Force F-16 after violating Ankara’s airspace in the Hatay region. Here you can find all the details about the downing and subsequent CSAR (Combat SAR) mission launched by Russian choppers, one of those was destroyed by rebels on the ground, where the helicopter had performed an emergency landing. The two Russian pilots, who ejected from the Su-24 in flames, died in the incident (it’s still unclear whether at least one of them died before it touched the ground or was killed by the rebels who reportedly gunned the two parachutes). According to the Turkish authorities, the Russian plane was warned 10 times in 5 minutes while it approached the boundary with another Su-24, before it was engaged. The violation was extremely short: flying at 19,000 feet, the Fencer crossed the Turkish airspace for 17 seconds. While one of the Fencers egressed towards the Syrian airspace, the doomed Su-24 was hit by an air-to-air missile (AIM-9X, based on the Russian report that mentions an IR-guided weapon; other sources suggested it may have been an AIM-120). Fighters move fast. 17 seconds is a long time in that context. Cheers, Scott.
Post #406,529 by boxley 11/24/15 11:24:54 PM Reply	cutting a corner gets you shot down? good to know if they were only flying accross a 2 mile loop how can the turks say they warned them 10 times in 5 minutes if they were in turkish airspace for 17 seconds? think about it. There is a loop of turkey approximately 2 miles wide and a few miles long in that area. Yes the russians were wrong to cut accross that loop but a wing to wing escort would have sufficed. Turkey likes to shoot first and whine about consequences later. Just hope the russians have more sense than the turks and avoid the area. Otherwise it will be bad you can kill people for America at age 18 but need to be 21 to buy a beer
Post #406,535 by Another Scott 11/25/15 12:15:47 AM Reply	I hope Erdogan gets some sense, but Putin knew the risks. Putin's power depends on being BMOC. He expects everyone to back down when he confronts them. He needs to learn that he can't dictate terms everywhere. Him learning that lesson sooner rather than later is a good thing. (If 2015 can be called "sooner", that is.) But similarly with Erdogan. I was hoping that the Turks would have cut his parliamentary seats rather than increasing them. He still doesn't have a large enough majority to do what he wants with the constitution, but he won't give up. He's a dangerous man... Cheers, Scott.
Post #406,537 by boxley 11/25/15 12:54:32 AM 11/25/15 12:55:06 AM Reply	yup two whack jobs and we have an alliance with two of them to cover there asses you can kill people for America at age 18 but need to be 21 to buy a beer Edited by boxley Nov. 25, 2015, 12:55:06 AM EST Expand All History
Post #406,532 by scoenye 11/24/15 11:31:24 PM Reply	Those two deserve each other As they're both busy not-shooting Daesh and using the situation for internal political purposes. I guess the next step will be for that Russian missile cruiser to open up on something inside Turkey and Erdogan will have a chance to test out his Harpoon clone :-/ Just hoping the rest of NATO manages to stay out of this mess.
Post #406,546 by mmoffitt 11/25/15 12:48:42 PM Reply	Don't drink the Turk Kool-Aid. A US official who spoke to Reuters claimed overnight that the Russian jet's heat signature showed it was hit inside Syrian airspace when it was shot down after briefly entering Turkish airspace - agreeing with Russia's analysis. But Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has repeated Turkey's claim that the jet was in Turkish airspace at the time it was hit in direct contradiction of the US analysis. http://news.sky.com/story/1593808/one-of-downed-russian-jets-pilots-rescued Then there's this: Syrian fighters destroyed a Russian helicopter with a missile, shortly after they forced it to make an emergency landing in a nearby government-held area in Syria's Latakia province on Tuesday, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said. A Syrian insurgent group, recipient of U.S. Tow missiles, said its fighters hit the helicopter with an anti-tank missile while it was in the air and put out a video showing the helicopter being blown up after one of its fighters struck it with another missile. http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/24/us-mideast-syria-crisis-helicopter-idUSKBN0TD1KQ20151124 Here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vxxQOTCN18. And of course, "God is Great" can be heard on the video. Yep, Assad is the evil one in this fight all right.
Post #406,547 by Another Scott 11/25/15 1:00:13 PM Reply	Assad has killed an order of magnitude more than Daesh... http://www.businessinsider.com/assads-government-still-kills-way-more-civilians-than-isis-2015-2 But Adam Silverman at B-J makes a good point: If Assad is deposed, who will replace him? It's a good thing we (the world) can't solve the Daesh and Assad problems simultaneously - because we can't. Cheers, Scott.
Post #406,548 by mmoffitt 11/25/15 1:25:52 PM Reply	If we topple Assad now, ... in the usual US planned way (i.e. absolutely no exit strategy and no decent throne heirs to pick from) you know what Syria will look like. It will look like Iraq, Egypt, Libya and the rest of the "Arab Spring" states. This is, it will be assimilated by Daesh.

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