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New Flying - no.
As a kid I knew a scout leader who was a pilot. He took me up in his Pipe[r] Cub (or similar) for a brief jaunt around the airport, but I don't recall handling the controls (if that were even possible). It was a weird sensation, being so close to being exposed (just a thin skin of aluminum...).

If you have two people operating the same controls, there's a problem. That's why "my airplane" is vital.

The only example that MM can point to where the non-coupled sticks in an Airbus was an issue (AFAIK) was the Air France 447:

In a July 2012 CBS report, Sullenberger suggested that the design of the Airbus cockpit might have been a factor in the accident. The flight controls are not linked between the two pilot seats, and Robert, the left seat pilot who believed he had taken over control of the plane, was not aware that Bonin had continued to hold the stick back, which overrode Robert's own control.[237][238]


Reference 238 says:

"CBS News aviation and safety expert Captain Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger explained that he believes that the disappearance would have been less likely to have happened if the plane had been a Boeing instead of an Airbus. This is because the control wheels [in the Boeing] are larger and more obvious. Sullenberger showed CBS News correspondent Mark Strassmann the difference with an Airbus simulator. There's a small movement on the Airbus flight controls called a sidestick, which raises the nose of the plane and instructs it to climb. Pilots rarely perform the maneuver at high altitudes because it can be very dangerous, but that is exactly what the pilot of Flight 447 did."


(Emphasis added.)

If you have two pilots manipulating the stick/yoke, you're doing it wrong. No matter how the two yokes are designed. Robert should have said, and meant, "my airplane".

And a pilot who pulls back on the stick/yoke at high altitude is doing it wrong. Having coupled controls wouldn't have prevented him from doing so.

IOW, the problem isn't the design of the plane, it's the training and communications of the pilots. Yes, of course, one can try to design around mistakes and miscommunications like these, but it's not going to fix the underlying problem. The money spent on hardware would be better spent on training and evaluation and implementing best-practices.

IMHO.

Cheers,
Scott.
Collapse Edited by Another Scott March 26, 2015, 04:15:31 PM EDT
Flying - no.
As a kid I knew a scout leader who was a pilot. He took me up in his Pipe Cub (or similar) for a brief jaunt around the airport, but I don't recall handling the controls (if that were even possible). It was a weird sensation, being so close to being exposed (just a thin skin of aluminum...).

If you have two people operating the same controls, there's a problem. That's why "my airplane" is vital.

The only example that MM can point to where the non-coupled sticks in an Airbus was an issue (AFAIK) was the Air France 447:

In a July 2012 CBS report, Sullenberger suggested that the design of the Airbus cockpit might have been a factor in the accident. The flight controls are not linked between the two pilot seats, and Robert, the left seat pilot who believed he had taken over control of the plane, was not aware that Bonin had continued to hold the stick back, which overrode Robert's own control.[237][238]


Reference 238 says:

"CBS News aviation and safety expert Captain Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger explained that he believes that the disappearance would have been less likely to have happened if the plane had been a Boeing instead of an Airbus. This is because the control wheels [in the Boeing] are larger and more obvious. Sullenberger showed CBS News correspondent Mark Strassmann the difference with an Airbus simulator. There's a small movement on the Airbus flight controls called a sidestick, which raises the nose of the plane and instructs it to climb. Pilots rarely perform the maneuver at high altitudes because it can be very dangerous, but that is exactly what the pilot of Flight 447 did."


(Emphasis added.)

If you have two pilots manipulating the stick/yoke, you're doing it wrong. No matter how the two yokes are designed. Robert should have said, and meant, "my airplane".

And a pilot who pulls back on the stick/yoke at high altitude is doing it wrong. Having coupled controls wouldn't have prevented him from doing so.

IOW, the problem isn't the design of the plane, it's the training and communications of the pilots. Yes, of course, one can try to design around mistakes and miscommunications like these, but it's not going to fix the underlying problem. The money spent on hardware would be better spent on training and evaluation and implementing best-practices.

IMHO.

Cheers,
Scott.
New And doing that makes *all* the planes safer
--

Drew
New Nobody's ever claimed that!
And a pilot who pulls back on the stick/yoke at high altitude is doing it wrong. Having coupled controls wouldn't have prevented him from doing so.

No, it wouldn't have. BUT if the control sticks were coupled, there would have been a tactile indication to the pilot in the left seat that the pilot in the right seat had yanked the control stick back. That would have led to the left seat pilot taking corrective action. Because there was no indication coming from the decoupled control sticks, the left seat pilot wasn't clued into the primary problem. You do understand that, right? You further understand that it is right and proper to call an engineering decision that reduces safety "a design flaw", yes? It's not the only design flaw with an Airbus, but it is a spectacularly stupid one.

New You did read the rest of my post, right?
:-)

Wikipedia on the A320 Family:

From 1959 through 2013, the Airbus A320 family of jets experienced 14 fatal hull-loss accidents for every million takeoffs, one of the smallest fatality rates of any family of jets included in the study.


These incidents are very, very rare. They are tragic, but it's not a dangerous airplane so it can't be a dangerous design.

Every airliner has engineering compromises. Money spent linking the sticks and providing feedback, and so forth, is money that can't be spent on other things - like more rigorous training about cockpit communications - that may cover many more types of pathologies that can lead to accidents.

FWIW.

Cheers,
Scott.
New So coupling the controls was too expensive?
You are really reaching on this one, Scott. ;0)

I'd be willing to bet there are a couple of hundred families that might disagree with you.
     Airbus - again. - (mmoffitt) - (71)
         It was an old plane -- 24 yo. - (a6l6e6x) - (3)
             That's not old. My airplane is 55 years old! -NT - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                 Yeah, but you don't go up to 40 K feet. - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                     Well, if you're going to pick nits. ;0) - (mmoffitt)
         And Boeings never crash? - (pwhysall) - (36)
             Sure, but for fatal crashes Airbus wins! - (mmoffitt) - (35)
                 Mein Gott - (malraux)
                 What a massive margin of victory - (pwhysall) - (33)
                     Give Airbus a few more years, it'll be larger. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (32)
                         Will it double? - (pwhysall) - (31)
                             Will it matter? - (mmoffitt) - (30)
                                 Two. Millionths. Of. A. Percent. - (pwhysall) - (29)
                                     before or after you mined a nostril? -NT - (boxley) - (28)
                                         FOUR millionths of a percent! -NT - (pwhysall) - (27)
                                             thats not much of a booger :-) -NT - (boxley)
                                             Numbers-porn; you're usually not so easily deflected to the simplistic ploy. - (Ashton) - (25)
                                                 Hardware can't guarantee that one knows what the other is doing. - (Another Scott) - (14)
                                                     especially when one pilot is locked out the cockpit and the other has no response -NT - (boxley)
                                                     Coupled controls *do* help, though. - (mmoffitt) - (6)
                                                         [citation needed] - (pwhysall) - (5)
                                                             Read with comprehension much? - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                                                 Just answer the question. - (pwhysall) - (3)
                                                                     Okay. I'll play. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                         Assertion. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                             You brought up a question *I* did NOT make a comment about. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                     'The side stick vs yoke issue is red herring, IMO.' [Fail] - (Ashton) - (5)
                                                         Flying - no. - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                                             And doing that makes *all* the planes safer -NT - (drook)
                                                             Nobody's ever claimed that! - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                 You did read the rest of my post, right? - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                     So coupling the controls was too expensive? - (mmoffitt)
                                                 Appealing to facts not in evidence - (pwhysall) - (9)
                                                     You're in-lurve with modrin TLAs like "CRM"--as if That 'cooks the rice' - (Ashton) - (8)
                                                         Thought experiment - (drook) - (2)
                                                             Excellent point; shall need some pondering.. - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                                 Look at the latest research on self-driving cars - (drook)
                                                         OH NOES A MODERN TLA! IT MUST BE SHIT AND RUBBISH - (pwhysall) - (3)
                                                             Yep, two Boeings wrecked by a European. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                                 And this is why you fail. -NT - (pwhysall)
                                                             (The CRM idea isn't bollocks, of course) But as a deflection of this issue: - (Ashton)
                                                         Dupe - (pwhysall)
         Horrible image. - (mmoffitt)
         Pilot error indeed - (malraux) - (28)
             Guess he couldn't live with the fact he wasn't flying a Boeing -NT - (drook) - (26)
                 Errg. - (Another Scott) - (25)
                     an assumption is being made that he was unwilling to open he door, he may have been incapacitated -NT - (boxley) - (14)
                         The autopilot was set to an altitude of 100ft while the pilot was out. -NT - (malraux) - (1)
                             Re: The autopilot was set to an altitude of 100ft while the pilot was out. - (Nightowl)
                         That's possible, but unlikely here imo. - (mmoffitt) - (11)
                             from the latest news it appears that it was deliberate -NT - (boxley) - (10)
                                 Re: from the latest news it appears that it was deliberate - (Nightowl) - (9)
                                     I don't know how Europe does it. - (mmoffitt) - (8)
                                         His response was definitely career ending. -NT - (malraux) - (3)
                                             And an affirmation of the physician's finding. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                             He wanted to go down in spectacular fashion and be remembered - (Nightowl)
                                             Ignore...dupe post. Sorry. -NT - (Nightowl)
                                         Doesn't matter much - (scoenye) - (3)
                                             Excellent points. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                 Share your unrealistic hopes.. because one. must. - (Ashton)
                                             Flying amortization -vs- Student Loans - (Ashton)
                     Could be you win the thread - (rcareaga) - (9)
                         That and being deemed unfit to fly. - (Nightowl)
                         There are more differences between how the Europeans do it and we than I realized. - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                             blame it on the nazis - (crazy) - (1)
                                 That's a tough one -NT - (drook)
                             NYT sez that.. some slack is cut though, even here. - (Ashton)
                             Zero tolerance is superficially appealing... - (pwhysall) - (3)
                                 This. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                     Alternates for pilots? - (Ashton) - (1)
                                         Well said. People do need alternatives rather than being kicked to the curb... -NT - (Another Scott)
             Eerie earlier crash. - (Another Scott)

Geez can’t we all just be Canadians or something?
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