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New Back to the anti-Russian (nay Soviet) Propaganda State (i.e. the USA)
The idea that everything that is happening in Ukraine is the result of Russia’s aggressive, expansionist policy is almost consensual in the Western media, which are remarkably uncritical of the claims made by their governments. Some prominent figures, including Hillary Clinton, even compared Putin to Hitler after Russia annexed Crimea. Many others clearly have the same idea, although they have not said so explicitly. Indeed, the widely accepted explanation of what is happening is that Putin, who is bent on resuscitating the Soviet empire, wants to annex eastern Ukraine. We are told that he should be stopped, though it is not clear exactly how. This analysis is completely wrong and can only lead to disaster. People who denounce Moscow’s expansionist agenda have forgotten that it is NATO, not Russia, that has systematically expanded since the end of the Cold War. The result of that expansion is that almost every country in Europe that used to be part of the Warsaw Pact is now a member of NATO. Yet at the end of the Cold War, the United States assured Moscow that NATO would not expand further east, so that Gorbachev would agree to Germany’s reunification and to united Germany’s NATO membership. In 1999, NATO illegally bombed Yugoslavia, one of Russia’s last allies in Europe. More recently, the United States announced plans to deploy a missile defense system in Europe, which Russia has every reason to believe is directed against it, despite Washington’s repeated denials.

The fact is that every Russian action over the last few years that has been presented as part of Putin’s imperialist agenda has merely been a reaction to the interference of the United States into its sphere of influence. Moscow’s concerns about NATO’s expansionism are quickly dismissed in the West as paranoia. Those who think that should ask themselves how the United States would react if Russia was seeking a military alliance with its neighbors and installing military bases at its borders. This requires no great effort of imagination, for one just has to remember that when the Soviet Union tried to install missiles in Cuba, the United States almost started a nuclear war. The problem is that people in Washington, who think of US hegemony as benign, apparently have a lot of difficulty understanding how anyone could find it threatening. Yet for some reason, the Russians cannot bring themselves to rejoice at the prospect of being surrounded by the most powerful military alliance in the >history of the world.

Washington has been massively funding pro-West political movements in Moscow’s sphere of influence ever since Russia started to show signs of recovery at the beginning of the 2000s. At the end of last year, the United States pushed the deal between Ukraine and the European Union that, although often presented in the West as a mere trade agreement, was perceived by the Russians as the first step in Ukraine’s integration into the European Union and, ultimately, NATO. With characteristic hypocrisy, Western governments brushed aside that worry as if it were completely ludicrous, even though they know perfectly well it is not. Russia therefore offered a more generous deal to Kiev, after which Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych decided to reject the EU deal and took the one Russia was offering instead. This sparked protests in Kiev that culminated in a coup against him. The United States immediately recognized the government resulting from that coup, which, under the influence of fascist parties that had chased from Kiev the democratically elected Yanukovych, took several measures against the Russian minority in the east. This is what started the civil war and prompted Russia to annex Crimea.

http://www.thenation.com/article/180930/americas-losing-strategy-ukraine

How many of you are buying this crap we're peddling?
Expand Edited by mmoffitt Aug. 10, 2014, 08:33:34 AM EDT
New doing fine until the last two sentences
Russia has reason to be wary of europe especially the germans. Having said that the prussians are really leery of russia. The slavs have been repeatedly invaded from the east every century since the vikings started collecting dues back in the early medeival times. I think the Ukraine is not so much in love with europe as they want a chance to not be de-kulacked again. It is complicated. In America we don't do complicated.
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
New ignore dupe
Russia has reason to be wary of europe especially the germans. Having said that the prussians are really leery of russia. The slavs have been repeatedly invaded from the east every century since the vikings started collecting dues back in the early medeival times. I think the Ukraine is not so much in love with europe as they want a chance to not be de-kulacked again. It is complicated. In America we don't do complicated.
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
Expand Edited by boxley Aug. 10, 2014, 12:36:58 PM EDT
New Two factors at play.
Ukrainians look across the fence at Poland and see folks making 5 times their income. Being Russia's vassal doesn't cut it.

Putin is a short shit. To most folks that's not a big deal, just a fact of life. Like being good at math, or having hazel eyes. To Putin, with his inferiority complex, it's an obligation to do macho stuff. Riding horses bare-chested, ditching dowdy looking wife, displaying the regalia of the Tzars, seizing Crimea, etc. To quote a Russian female commentator "He's a small man!"

NATO has not been any danger to Russia. Russia's been a danger to its neighbors.
Alex

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

-- Isaac Asimov
New There are bigger fish to fry than these minnows.
I pretend-not a thorough grokking of anything you could call "the Real Issues" underlying the patently-manipulated Official-screeds (always further mis-read/misinterpreted by the slovenly meeja of all infotainment outlets.) But even I can see some holes in either pole of the benign/malevolent intentions of US/NATO -vs- Russia-under-Putin.

One elision (at least) re the ouster of Yanukovych is the matter of his accretion of National-wealth--practically a carbon-copy of the dis-USA--its 'Yanukovych' (retitled as: The 0.01% Governing Plutocrats.) We saw (at IWE) those pics of the brown/khaki?-shirts wannabe-S.A. in action with the Molotov cocktails and that gory 'Square'. It seems that many commentators, then and since--possessed of much more fresh and ancient local lore--have oft-contradictory takes on the asserted root causes? implied strategies of the many warring factions.

To (really) follow-along the original Position statements of even the major players/groups would, I think become a full-time job. To then try to rank, dissect their platforms and summarize a truthier Overview, while flagging the obvious falsehoods in meeja takes, all along: would need squads of unbiased [Hah!] authentic [How tell?] investigative reporters. We amateurs suck hind-tit in this morass of disinformation, naive (and subtle) scheming: just like here at 'Home'.

The Nation's analysis seems rational, given their framing (that odious/cynical--now inescapable facet of all propaganda) to my pretty-ignorant perusal. But believe! that it is both accurate and sufficient? is to go, simple-mindedly with one of two poles.
As Box states, al punte: We don't Do Complexity (even half-assed, well-enough.)

It's fortunate that both Alex and Mike possess lived-in lore which we ocean-isolated furriners can't possibly replicate. But no individual experience can grok-to-fullness this nexus of sincere/brilliant + lying/incompetent reportage, I wot. That *This play is ongoing with such manifestly more important matters as affect all Species! (still) alive, proves that rhetoric Shall prevail, worldwide over sane, informed authentic debate, then cautious but rapid addressing of the Main Problem -vs- homo-sap's non-stewardship of its only-possible nest.

* that 'we' are analyzing this Play via the same rhetoric as has attended every clusterfuck since before-the-Shogunate's (perhaps-Final)==fatal 8 years of retrograde dismantlings--simply underscores that koan.. dirge? Mankind lacks Scale and Relativity. Collectively then, 'we' Aren't employing Language towards our survival; those tiny-minorities earnestly pleading that we. learn. How. to do that? are -120 dB in-the-noise. Still.




dis-US, Ukraine, Europe, Asia, Africa … are just artificial-Names! of a divided-down planet. I guess that it WILL take some palpable conflagration, Next--the sooner-the-better--before a sufficiency of the 9-ish billions switch mind-sets and Get On with the many things we Could do. Instead.

I'm ashamed to be a microscopic-part of this racing-to-seppuku Lemming-species, so demonstrably incapable of Learning anything.. for more than a few minutes' retention. Screw 'Nations' and their myopic concepts of Power: in 2014 that is an Idiot's errand.
     Back to the anti-Russian (nay Soviet) Propaganda State (i.e. the USA) - (mmoffitt) - (4)
         doing fine until the last two sentences - (boxley)
         ignore dupe - (boxley)
         Two factors at play. - (a6l6e6x)
         There are bigger fish to fry than these minnows. - (Ashton)

Enthusiasm substituting for real talent.
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