It's here: 'Vast methane plumes escaping from the seafloor" discovered in Siberian Arctic Sea'

Post #392,939 by Ashton 8/8/14 7:58:24 AM Reply	It's here: 'Vast methane plumes escaping from the seafloor" discovered in Siberian Arctic Sea' This got long.. fast. Hence Prologue: [The Swedes are barely into their planned program, their spokesman has indicated (also corrected a mis-translation) that they will say more ... after completion--their agenda seems to have some specific factoids to be registered. Still, these first observations are Alarming/no hyperbole needed.] Obviously too, grokking Real Climate to fullness demands one's own threaded-memory, notes and effort; many of the links are revealing; many of the correlative Other effects (like "oysters" and "ants"!) are by no means trivial, but quantizing these is yet another time-sink. Cthulhu knoze w.t.f. the pabulum-speak meeja will Bowdlerize with any/all of this material. Kos' take from Stockholm universitet. We are observing and investigating methane releases on the East Siberian Arctic Ocean. For 72 hours now, we have been in the thick of extensive investigations of methane releases from the outer Laptev Sea system. The SWERUS-C3 expedition is really well equipped to for detect the release of methane. As we steam along, we continuously measure methane levels in air, via inlets placed at a new meteorology mast at the very bow of the Oden, and in surface seawater, through a specially-constructed seawater intake (delivering water from an intake at 8 m depth underneath the hull of Oden directly to the permanent shipboard laboratory). (YouTube link there.) Pharyngula comments. You should be afraid. Pretty dismal replies. Best(?) This is why we should have eaten the rich when we had the chance. The loss of the reflecting pools/melt-ponds atop floes, making that space available for sun-absorption--another tipping-point among all the known ones (+ all the unknown-unknowns.) #13: I work with people who do field work in the Canadian sub-Arctic (north of 60, but below the treeline). They tell me that at their field site, all summer long, they watched methane bubbling up through an enormous lake as the permafrost melted. Imagining that on the scale of continents rather frightens me. Lastly (let's not say Finally) Real Climate. Lots of information--most current comments here: Unforced variations Aug 2014. Have dropped in before; I think I like their attitude(s) and I know of no more-credible assemblage (outside specialist/non-public.) Ex: I’m trying to learn as much as I can about our climate situation (DIO) and clogging up the thread with insults and boorishly long commentary is counter productive. This is a multifaceted problem. If you want to be listened to, do the following: “Be sincere, Be brief, Be seated.” ― Franklin D. Roosevelt (Saw only one, 33 DIOGENES 8/7; Retort at 38. But then I'm hardly more than a %few through even recent material.) {sigh} We're going to need some New metaphors ere long, I wot :-/ Approaching .?. time for a Winston Churchill oration to the proles: ..the ept ..the clueless and ..the in-denial? Can't fight this one on the beaches ... if those keep moving inland. For an example of what all are up-against: Amory Lovins on some bogus spreadsheets and wrong-conclusions re renewable energy. :-/ Multiply by 100x [Whistle when passing the cemetery, right?] Betting pool? ... date when the Banksters start selling-short. (Hey! it's all they know how to do--useless for any actual work.) Now where was that treatise on the Real-length of coastlines--depending on granularity of the fractal-level.
Post #392,947 by a6l6e6x 8/8/14 12:42:37 PM Reply	Given that methane is much worse than carbon dioxide... as a greenhouse gas, the least we should do is try to burn it! And here we've been worrying about all those methane containing NZ sheep farts. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #392,952 by Ashton 8/8/14 3:36:27 PM Reply	There's even a query about That! Nothing in this is simple.. too many equations. Zachary Smith says: 7 Aug 2014 at 12:58 PM “‘We’re F’d’: Methane Plumes Seep From Frozen Ocean Floors” vs “An Arctic methane worst-case scenario” http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2012/01/an-arctic-methane-worst-case-scenario/comment-page-1/#comments I’ll confess I can’t quite reconcile these two versions of Arctic methane releases. He refers to this 2012 Gedanken-experiment: An Arctic methane worst-case scenario. It does seem wiser to extract some power, thus converting to CO₂ and exploring any remotely-promising New-means of attacking that/sequestering etc. But the black-umbrella atop this most-intractable Problem ever, remains: The fatal defect of an entire Personal-Greed-driven mob of billions: already skilled in la-la-la intransigence, all fueled by ignorance even of what 'science' means. Combine the perpetual delaying-tactics, honed to perfection by Lawyers, the sole-focus of Finance: More-for-me/Fuck You.. Methinks it Will take a monumental-Class Horrific next event, ever to waken the sleepwalkers into some (stlll-confused twilight-state) ... maybe sufficient to counter all of the above forces united-in-Stupidity. We seem to have to Hope for This! ... as the prerequisite for the damping of the ceaseless yammerers.. for long enough to introduce, for the first-time ever: Full/complete Int'l cooperation combined with a (reluctant) WIllingness of millions to personally cooperate. This, despite the profit-driven Waste-making engrams which Vulture-C has inculcated in everyone who Buys Things. (Finance will simply sell short: yet More $$. Marianas Trench fodder should we ever become Serious.) I go Pogo.
Post #392,960 by a6l6e6x 8/8/14 5:16:51 PM Reply	Here some comments on methane/carbon dioxide effects. Wikipedia: The contribution of each gas to the greenhouse effect is affected by the characteristics of that gas, its abundance, and any indirect effects it may cause. For example, the direct radiative effect of a mass of methane is about 72 times stronger than the same mass of carbon dioxide over a 20-year time frame but it is present in much smaller concentrations so that its total direct radiative effect is smaller, in part due to its shorter atmospheric lifetime. On the other hand, in addition to its direct radiative impact, methane has a large, indirect radiative effect because it contributes to ozone formation. Shindell et al. (2005) argue that the contribution to climate change from methane is at least double previous estimates as a result of this effect. Methane is worse than I thought. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #392,953 by dmcarls 8/8/14 3:43:49 PM Reply	You want more??? (Oliver Twist) ""The collapse of this sector of West Antarctica appears to be unstoppable," [more...] http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2014-148
Post #392,966 by Ashton 8/8/14 6:01:20 PM Reply	Indeed; seems that a Century of n-$quadrillion invested in a concept called Progress (that infinitely-malleable idea) with a C-note here and there for Maintenance: has an ROI measured only in [-]s. Who Knew? (Who ... ever-much Cared?) except fringe-folk with some knowledge, thus all illegible to the progress-definers. Over-population?--unpossible. This video pretty-much spells-out with as near-certainty as it ever gets on this scale: denouement for jillions of sq. miles of coasts worldwide. And all Countries 'bank'-rupted by the hordes/and hoards of Banksters everywhere, face: How many times can you bankroll abandoning expensive city-structures, rebuilding-inland ... n-times? n+10 times?) If.. you can get serfs to Work in the heat, without nightly hi-tech riots? Ahh: work only nights; daytime: cower in caves? The Sisyphus Effect! So then: IS 2014 the Inflection point? 'twixt our fantasies of yore \|\| the prospects of endless toil next, (all magnified by the tardiness of the species' mediocre smarts.) It will all be about trying to catch-up, somehow; to ameliorate all the tripping-points already afoot. And likely a perpetual crap-shoot: as to how much of That labor proved effective, as new projects are added and poor ones ceased--as the momentum begun last century worsens matters, well-before any net [+]s begin. Mahler time!--I think Gus might have liked that his 'program music to console endless-toilers?' found a larger niche than us ee-lites. George R. Stewart's Earth Abides © 1949 might be a better primer for grand-kids than A Canticle for Leibowitz? There's much to be said for decomplexification, if what one seeks is an "authentic" Life.. and no more endless-Stuff such as creates liffs. (Ya gets time for solitude, so things sink in.. and for celebrating the extinction of the Time Clock.. an idea which would likely horrify those tykes--when it was explained to be a 24/7 Bully worn around most everyone's neck, in our times.) Could be unalloyed-Fun! so vastly different from Corporate-produced mob gaiety? Damn.. born too soon! Again.
Post #392,988 by a6l6e6x 8/9/14 9:44:55 AM Reply	And it's not just the sea floor. Wa Po sayeth: There’s now a substantiated theory about what created the crater. And the news isn’t so good. It may be methane gas, released by the thawing of frozen ground. According to a recent Nature article, “air near the bottom of the crater contained unusually high concentrations of methane — up to 9.6% — in tests conducted at the site on 16 July, says Andrei Plekhanov, an archaeologist at the Scientific Centre of Arctic Studies in Salekhard, Russia. Plekhanov, who led an expedition to the crater, says that air normally contains just 0.000179% methane. The scientist said the methane release may be related to Yamal’s unusually hot summers in 2012 and 2013, which were warmer by an average of 5 degrees Celsius. “As temperatures rose, the researchers suggest, permafrost thawed and collapsed, releasing methane that had been trapped in the icy ground,” o o o “Pound for pound, the comparative impact of [methane gas] on climate change is over 20 times greater than [carbon dioxide] over a 100-year period,” reported the Environmental Protection Agency. When the Hooper Bay, AK village sinks below sea level, Box will have an aha moment. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #392,994 by folkert 8/9/14 11:42:05 AM Reply	No he won't. -- greg@gregfolkert.net "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." --Stanislaw Jerzy Lec
Post #393,000 by boxley 8/9/14 2:20:07 PM Reply	erosion will get it before seal levels will :-) Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
Post #393,002 by Andrew Grygus 8/9/14 6:31:44 PM Reply	Seal Levels? I knew that ban on eating sea mammals would have unexpected consequences.

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