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New A Mosul retrospective via Guardian (3 old Crocks on the USSC later.. Surreal.)
320M in stasis ever since (and all those bodies.)
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/13/mosul-iraq-stalked-by-death-armed-isis-militants

(For those of us who haven't been keeping up with Iraq travel blurbs for a couple years.)
While it was the Pearl of the North, notwithstanding the tyranny of Saddam, there was a certain entente amidst the irreconcilable Sunni, Shia, Kurd. Then '03



Mosul was magical once, but now it's stalked by death
The city's delicate social mix was destroyed in 2003 and never really recovered, making it an easy target for armed Isis militants


Michael Goldfarb
The Guardian, Friday 13 June 2014 13.39

There has been a terrible sense of deja vu the past few days for those of us who covered the fall of Mosul in 2003. The photos of Iraqi army uniforms abandoned on the side of the roads leading away from the city; in 2003, I saw uniforms abandoned on the roadside as soldiers refused to die for Saddam Hussein. Kurdish peshmerga taking over Kirkuk; in 2003, peshmerga took control of Kirkuk. The roads from Mosul to Erbil packed with people fleeing to Kurdistan; in 2003 the same scenes. The central bank looted; ditto 2003 – except this time it had real money, dollars, as opposed to Saddam bills.

One thing that isn't the same as in 2003: the delicately balanced relations among the many communities, ethnic and religious, in this most diverse region in Iraq have not been broken again. They were permanently shattered during the first five years of the new era. The what-might-have-been of a new Iraq disappeared with them.

Mosul must have been magical once. Smothered in history, it is yet another place where the past never dies and isn't even past. And that past goes back to the beginning of civilisation. This was the home of the Assyrian empire. The ruins of Nineveh are directly across the river Tigris from Mosul. All subsequent imperial traffic has left a mark here.

I saw Mosul through the eyes of my translator, Ahmad Shawkat, a native of the city. For him, having been forced into exile from the area, Mosul was the pearl of the north, white and shimmering with Arabian Nights architecture overlooking the Tigris. As we drove around Kurdistan reporting on the war he talked not just of its beauty but of its precious ethnic and religious mix.

When we finally got to Mosul it was clear that my friend had a very romantic view of his hometown. The city had slumped into decay and was not pearl-like at all. It was dusty and crumbling.

We watched as a million-and-a-half people staggered around having been released from a totalitarian nightmare into a world of complete anarchy. The city was being looted from top to bottom. But there was truth in his description of the city's cosmopolitan mix. As the years have gone by the tripartite version of Iraqi society has become a meme: Sunni, Shia, Kurd. Three communities that are irreconcilable and should never have been put together in one country. That's the oversimplified version for the Bush officials who ran the occupation. But of course there was much more to it than that.

Ahmad was an embodiment of this society. He was a Kurd married to an Arab, but also a Shabak – one of the many obscure sects including Yezidis and Mandeans that have been born in this region over the millennia and still survive. The mix of Christian denominations is ancient and mind-boggling: Syriac Catholic, Syriac Orthodox, Chaldean Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Roman Catholic and Assyrian.

That's just religion. Ethnically, Mosul was home to Arabs, Turkmen, Kurds, Armenians and Assyrians. All the groups mixed freely and fairly easily, although in the last decade of Saddam's regime that had already started to change. Radical Islam was already making inroads in Mosul in the 1990s. Then came the war, and when Saddam was gone a different conflict began. In the bazaars and at night there were whispers and threats against Christians, Kurds, Turkmen and those who tried to make democracy work.

[. . .]

The truth is Mosul was never really pacified after the war, and has never been under effective government control. Unreconstructed Ba'athists made common cause with jihadists. They fought a guerrilla campaign against the Americans, and when the Americans withdrew they ruled with terror in the night while the government deluded itself that it controlled the city.

A mere 1,500 armed men from Isis took Mosul. But their arrival had been foretold when the city's tolerant social mix was ripped apart in the first years after George W Bush's mission was accomplished.




And that's just One major city and its own mixture of mercury fulminates.. and its consequences of Shogunate neocons let loose to howl at the moon.
[We haven't heard That odious word in a while, eh?]

Eleven! fucking Years later and a $T+ and.. it's back to Square [-2] and ISIS thugees, a mere handful, bringing along all the charm + Certainty of a squadron of '03 marlowes, freshly defrosted from their LN-chilled sarcophagi.

New Sounds like it was already on its way down, we just pushed it over
Here's one answer to mmoffit's thought experiment, I suppose.
--

Drew
New Not the way I read it.
That collage of religions and cultures existed in peace.

We unleashed the Shia revenge for recent mistreatment machine. That awakened the centuries old conflicts and cranked up intolerance which feeds on itself.
Alex

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."”

-- Isaac Asimov
New I may be reading to much into this line
"All the groups mixed freely and fairly easily, although in the last decade of Saddam's regime that had already started to change. Radical Islam was already making inroads in Mosul in the 1990s."

That sounds like things may have been quiet, but not stable.
--

Drew
New 'stable..' Surely you jest (?)
(Damn, can't find my ASCII cone-balanced-on-point, with a fly about to land..)
See your point, from the article, of course.

What we can never know is, whether Saddam would have moved the local zeitgeist into chaos..? anywhere as rapidly as ... soon after the First Flyboy's Victory costume show, right?
Those ignoramuses--the scent of raw petroleum paralyzing all the neurons--went into a wasps' nest wearing cut-off shorts drenched in honey.
Expecting a Victory Parade w/speeches and Fat Oil Contracts a few months later.

It's still hard to believe, 11 years out, that Condoleezza + Scary-Nukes-posters made saps of 98% of (even-) D.C. and re the plebs: hook, line and sinker.

(As to Next: gotcher popcorn + hemlock ready for Da Show?)
New Here ya go.
"cone" was the magic word for the search.

You may need to edit it a bit.

http://forum.iwethey.org/forum/post/48315/

HTH!

Cheers,
Scott.
(Who needs to remember those threads...)
New Thanks.. some prescience there, too! Miss Brandioch :-/
and the Doug/Dan debates--but it's a bummer to realize.. in 8/02 the DIMENSION of the fuck-ups-coming, which would begin on Day1 and never-End.
We are Sooo not-Ready for self-government-under-V.C. Maybe not any 'capitalism' du jour: if there's to be a Tomorrow not fucked-by-legacy pipe-dreams.
(Like say, perpetual-Windoze for all?)

And still: no USSC impeachments in sight, just the nutters' aims on That Black Guy.
We also need to prioritize that National To-Do list, starting with those perps; their potential toxins are as lethal as the remaining stores of bottled War-plagues-to-go.
(With fries?--if it's the whole sheBang,)
New Thus the thought experiment
Ie: It's all coming apart anyway, what happens if we give it a shove and get on with whatever comes next? Mosul gives one real-life answer.
--

Drew
Expand Edited by drook June 14, 2014, 11:34:18 PM EDT
New Dilemma remains though, once all the expected Pol-bloviations peter-out.
Abandoning these religio-zanies [on All sides] to their customary hellish-excesses:
KIlls any chances for females amidst these Genghis-led tribes, ever to get beyond serfdom
(Kinda like the effects of V-capitalism supporters of Fundie-stripe, who would love to do it here.)

Doesn't matter, weighing the fact that the Shogunate forced this particular configuration of FAIL;
decent folk everywhere would still feel some Dog in this Fight, no?
We lack the capacity for shame/also the guts ... to see this fuck-up anywhere near 'through'.

[Not that I have any 'solution' with a minuscule chance of being adopted--either.]
Nobody has any ideas how you fix the jelloware of any huge religio-mob, short of being even more vicious all-at-Once? than they are, daily.
     A Mosul retrospective via Guardian (3 old Crocks on the USSC later.. Surreal.) - (Ashton) - (8)
         Sounds like it was already on its way down, we just pushed it over - (drook) - (7)
             Not the way I read it. - (a6l6e6x) - (6)
                 I may be reading to much into this line - (drook) - (5)
                     'stable..' Surely you jest (?) - (Ashton) - (4)
                         Here ya go. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                             Thanks.. some prescience there, too! Miss Brandioch :-/ - (Ashton)
                         Thus the thought experiment - (drook) - (1)
                             Dilemma remains though, once all the expected Pol-bloviations peter-out. - (Ashton)

Rain, rain, go away. I can't stand you for one more day.
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