And I said

Post #354,512 by S1mon_Jester 2/20/12 8:59:47 PM Reply	And I said we...(or more accurately someone in the US)..literally supported a coup to get rid/kill him (with killing him being far more likely.) http://www.rebelion..../petras090602.htm You think he's going to play NICELY with the US after that? You don't think think he'll reach out to EACH and EVERY enemy of the US to see if they can be an ally? Who said "The enemy of my enemy..."? Now, once again...why is he evil? (I'm not saying he CAN'T be evil....but I haven't seen it yet) Associating with "evil" countries is bad? I know a country that has REPEATLY offered Kim Jong-Il nuclear reactors. Leaders who met with Gaddafi. Supplied arms to Saddam Hussein. Hell, they've even admitted to torture. I'm not saying Chavez is good guy...I'm saying I haven't seen the atrocities of Cambodia and others.
Post #354,525 by crazy 2/21/12 6:43:33 AM Reply	Various good points but I think I understand the core issue I'm not saying Chavez is good guy...I'm saying I haven't seen the atrocities of Cambodia and others. Ok, I need to know what pegs your ENTRY level evil indicator. So the killing fields of Pol Pot meet your criteria. To me, that's the END RESULT of allowing KNOWN evil to grow. How many people need to die before you peg a regime as evil?
Post #354,527 by crazy 2/21/12 6:57:35 AM Reply	Note: I considered bush jr a little E being directed by Cheney, a big E.
Post #354,537 by jake123 2/21/12 11:13:22 AM Reply	Well, they killed a lot more people than Chavez ever has. By orders of magnitude.
Post #354,541 by crazy 2/21/12 11:38:41 AM 2/21/12 11:54:21 AM Reply	Again, where is your start? And is is directly related to body count? I'd consider all the catholic priests ass raping little boys over years as being a BIG E, especially when they tag teamed and covered for each other. I doubt many people died (other than suicide) from the events. Big E, Little E, or merely a forgivable transgression (if they asked hard enough)? How about the list from here: http://www.caracasni...ent.cgi?l=eng&n=5 Big E, Little E, or merely a forgivable transgression (if they asked hard enough)? I'd take a few years at Guantanamo over a few months under Chavez's care, water boarding and all. Edited by crazy Feb. 21, 2012, 11:54:21 AM EST Expand All History
Post #354,703 by S1mon_Jester 2/24/12 7:31:18 PM Reply	That's your call...note: I didn't say Chavez wasn't evil I said he wasn't as evil as Pol Pot or others. In fact, I find me VERY similar to the US. (Do you find the US as big E evil?) ...was arrested without a judicial warrant... All, and I mean ALL Americans can be arrest and held indefinitely without a judicial warrant. Check out the Patriot act. between asphyxiations... Waterboarding? kept in a 7 x 8 foot cell... Cells in Gitmo are 6 x 8. Want me to continue? You asked the difference between little E and big E? Doing the above is all bad...definitely little E. But what is the status of Quintero? Was he really innocent? HRF takes no position on whether Quintero is guilty or innocent of the charges for which he remains incarcerated HRF won't take a stand. The Venezuelan government maintains he is guilty and has already tried and convicted him once. So, if he WAS innocent...would that be big E? Like Fouad Mahmoud al Rabiah? http://en.wikipedia....Mahmoud_al_Rabiah What if officials admitted innocent people were being held? Claims by officials that people were and are innocent? "There are still innocent people there," Lawrence Wilkerson, a Republican who was chief of staff to then-Secretary of State Colin Powell, told the Associated Press. "Some have been there six or seven years." Read more: http://www.sfgate.co...DTL#ixzz1nLbY675w What if they are children? (And what if they're LYING about holding children) Camp Iguana originally held three child detainees who camp spokesmen then claimed were the only detainees under age 16. It was closed in the winter of 2004 when the three were sent home. When the Department of Defense was forced, by US District Court Judge Jed Rakoff's court order to release the identities of all the detainees, they acknowledged that they had held up to twenty minors in the adult portion of the prison. What if we know they innocent...never did anything...no lawsuit..no nothing...and CONTINUED to hold them? About 90 prisoners have been cleared for transfer out of Guantánamo. Some of them are from countries like Syria or China -- where they would face torture if sent home -- or Yemen, which the United States considers unstable. And so they sit as captives, with no end in sight -- not because they are dangerous, not because they attacked America, but because the stigma of Guantánamo means they have no place to go, and America will not give a home to even one of them. 17 innocent Uighur men who have been imprisoned at Guantánamo Bay for nearly seven years were released in 2008. 5 still remain. Is this big E? You tell me. But I DO maintain: that this is worse than the Caracas Nine.

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