I dunno dude

Post #354,348 by jake123 2/17/12 9:53:51 AM Reply	I dunno dude He does keep winning his elections. It's just that the people who have the money in that country don't like it, as opposed to the people in that country who don't. Can't help but notice that despite all the protestations about Chavez... he hasn't taken all the rich people's stuff away from them.
Post #354,353 by lincoln 2/17/12 10:57:48 AM Reply	well he did nationalize the oil fields "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #354,354 by crazy 2/17/12 11:28:05 AM Reply	Whoa Lots of people "win" elections. Don't mean shit. The guy is evil. Little e, but still, evil. Unless you thing the following is a reasonable approach concerning a challenger: State newspapers are claiming that Capriles Âparticipated in a fascist, white supremacist groupÂ and represents ÂZionism.Â ÂIn another broadside, a popular late-night program on state television called ÂThe Razor,Â which every night vilifies Chávez opponents, alleged that Mr. Capriles was caught having sex with a man in a car.Â http://thinkprogress...h-a-man-in-a-car/
Post #354,356 by jake123 2/17/12 12:17:14 PM Reply	I'm not quite sure that I see much difference between that and the various suggestions I've seen all over the place, including in major media outlets, that Obama wears a bone in his nose, that he was an anchor baby, that he participates in racially-motivated black power marxist revolutionary groups in secret, that his birth certificate was forged some forty odd years ago so he could become president and destroy america, terrorist fisting between him and his wife (sounds like that could be fun, kinda) etc etc etc. Wasn't Glenn Beck's show one of the better performers in his niche when he was running all that crap up the flagpole? What about O'Reilly... isn't he still on the air? Don't forget that a few years ago the rich people in Venezuela attempted a putsch on Chavez, preceded by all their media outlets saying stuff just as outrageous. It wasn't until the army realised that they'd have to machine gun thousands in order to make it stick that it fell apart... and a lot of the push (and money) for that came from the same people that own the media that are telling you how evil Chavez is.
Post #354,363 by crazy 2/17/12 3:50:30 PM Reply	Please Link to your sources of statements so I can have an idea of what we are discussing.
Post #354,364 by crazy 2/17/12 4:39:18 PM Reply	And here's an Evil with a BIG E http://www.reuters.c...TRE81F2AU20120216
Post #354,380 by boxley 2/17/12 11:30:56 PM Reply	got any pics of the fisting? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
Post #354,462 by S1mon_Jester 2/19/12 9:57:52 AM Reply	I've got no dogs in this fight But most of the people who have argued Chavez is evil...don't admit the US helped in an attempted (failed) overthrow of him just a few years ago.
Post #354,475 by crazy 2/19/12 7:31:28 PM Reply	And did you not read what I wrote? http://iwt.mikevital....iwt?postid=57596 #1 - YES, we FUCKED up an supported all kind of evil in the region (and the world) and still do. So, now that I've proved that in this case, I, don't fit your expectations, can you also return the favor and admit to the evilness of the bastard.
Post #354,512 by S1mon_Jester 2/20/12 8:59:47 PM Reply	And I said we...(or more accurately someone in the US)..literally supported a coup to get rid/kill him (with killing him being far more likely.) http://www.rebelion..../petras090602.htm You think he's going to play NICELY with the US after that? You don't think think he'll reach out to EACH and EVERY enemy of the US to see if they can be an ally? Who said "The enemy of my enemy..."? Now, once again...why is he evil? (I'm not saying he CAN'T be evil....but I haven't seen it yet) Associating with "evil" countries is bad? I know a country that has REPEATLY offered Kim Jong-Il nuclear reactors. Leaders who met with Gaddafi. Supplied arms to Saddam Hussein. Hell, they've even admitted to torture. I'm not saying Chavez is good guy...I'm saying I haven't seen the atrocities of Cambodia and others.
Post #354,525 by crazy 2/21/12 6:43:33 AM Reply	Various good points but I think I understand the core issue I'm not saying Chavez is good guy...I'm saying I haven't seen the atrocities of Cambodia and others. Ok, I need to know what pegs your ENTRY level evil indicator. So the killing fields of Pol Pot meet your criteria. To me, that's the END RESULT of allowing KNOWN evil to grow. How many people need to die before you peg a regime as evil?
Post #354,527 by crazy 2/21/12 6:57:35 AM Reply	Note: I considered bush jr a little E being directed by Cheney, a big E.
Post #354,537 by jake123 2/21/12 11:13:22 AM Reply	Well, they killed a lot more people than Chavez ever has. By orders of magnitude.
Post #354,541 by crazy 2/21/12 11:38:41 AM 2/21/12 11:54:21 AM Reply	Again, where is your start? And is is directly related to body count? I'd consider all the catholic priests ass raping little boys over years as being a BIG E, especially when they tag teamed and covered for each other. I doubt many people died (other than suicide) from the events. Big E, Little E, or merely a forgivable transgression (if they asked hard enough)? How about the list from here: http://www.caracasni...ent.cgi?l=eng&n=5 Big E, Little E, or merely a forgivable transgression (if they asked hard enough)? I'd take a few years at Guantanamo over a few months under Chavez's care, water boarding and all. Edited by crazy Feb. 21, 2012, 11:54:21 AM EST Expand All History
Post #354,703 by S1mon_Jester 2/24/12 7:31:18 PM Reply	That's your call...note: I didn't say Chavez wasn't evil I said he wasn't as evil as Pol Pot or others. In fact, I find me VERY similar to the US. (Do you find the US as big E evil?) ...was arrested without a judicial warrant... All, and I mean ALL Americans can be arrest and held indefinitely without a judicial warrant. Check out the Patriot act. between asphyxiations... Waterboarding? kept in a 7 x 8 foot cell... Cells in Gitmo are 6 x 8. Want me to continue? You asked the difference between little E and big E? Doing the above is all bad...definitely little E. But what is the status of Quintero? Was he really innocent? HRF takes no position on whether Quintero is guilty or innocent of the charges for which he remains incarcerated HRF won't take a stand. The Venezuelan government maintains he is guilty and has already tried and convicted him once. So, if he WAS innocent...would that be big E? Like Fouad Mahmoud al Rabiah? http://en.wikipedia....Mahmoud_al_Rabiah What if officials admitted innocent people were being held? Claims by officials that people were and are innocent? "There are still innocent people there," Lawrence Wilkerson, a Republican who was chief of staff to then-Secretary of State Colin Powell, told the Associated Press. "Some have been there six or seven years." Read more: http://www.sfgate.co...DTL#ixzz1nLbY675w What if they are children? (And what if they're LYING about holding children) Camp Iguana originally held three child detainees who camp spokesmen then claimed were the only detainees under age 16. It was closed in the winter of 2004 when the three were sent home. When the Department of Defense was forced, by US District Court Judge Jed Rakoff's court order to release the identities of all the detainees, they acknowledged that they had held up to twenty minors in the adult portion of the prison. What if we know they innocent...never did anything...no lawsuit..no nothing...and CONTINUED to hold them? About 90 prisoners have been cleared for transfer out of Guantánamo. Some of them are from countries like Syria or China -- where they would face torture if sent home -- or Yemen, which the United States considers unstable. And so they sit as captives, with no end in sight -- not because they are dangerous, not because they attacked America, but because the stigma of Guantánamo means they have no place to go, and America will not give a home to even one of them. 17 innocent Uighur men who have been imprisoned at Guantánamo Bay for nearly seven years were released in 2008. 5 still remain. Is this big E? You tell me. But I DO maintain: that this is worse than the Caracas Nine.
Post #354,360 by jay 2/17/12 3:42:20 PM Reply	Chavez is slowly sliding towards authoritarian rule He doesn't want to give up power to anybody else, and is thus slowly sliding towards authoritarian rule to keep his position. Each election he has to go a bit further to hold on. Like many populists, he seems to have started out with fairly good intentions, but he can't give up the reigns of power to anybody else. He has done a lot for the poor, but he has done a fair bit of damage to the economy in the process. If not for the money he was getting from oil, his government would probably have collapsed already. Jay
Post #354,362 by mmoffitt 2/17/12 3:47:58 PM Reply	That's not necessarily bad. What most countries really could use is a benign dictatorship. I'm now in agreement with an old physician buddy of mine who claimed that the sum of all IQ's on the planet is a constant. People are too dumb for actual democracy. "The masses are asses."
Post #354,436 by jay 2/18/12 8:27:06 PM Reply	Doesn't work long term This is one of those things that works short term, but not long term. The longer he stays, the more corrupt his government will get and the harsher the measures he will have to use to stay in power. The eventual switch to a new leader gets harder and harder also. It might be a little better today for him to stay in power, but odds are that eventually the price will be paid one way or another. Jay

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